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#43 ·
Brah said:
I disagree with that. It's like saying that if I want a bigger piece of the pie, I need to support motorcycles on local trails (hey! multi-use trails!).

That pdf doesn't seem to provide any rational description of how it works. You can easily swap out the word 'motorcycle' for 'e-bikes'.

From that PDF:
E-bikes / Motorcycles create more cycling opportunities through reduced fitness requirements.

And I love motorcycles. They're fun. But I don't want to see them on my local mountain bike trails.
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I don't understand the subtle differences between ebikes and motorcycles well enough to comment on that.

The one thing that MBOSC and other similar advocacy groups make clear is that they advocate for all bicycles, including ebikes. So if you want a bigger piece of the pie you support MBOSC, and if you support MBOSC you support ebikes.
 
#44 ·
Mike in SC said:
CA State Parks in our area ( Wilder Ranch, Foest of Nisene Marks and others ), City and County of Santa Cruz, UCSC, all are good.
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Uh, pretty sure motorized bicycles, mopeds, motorcycles are NOT allowed in state parks including Niesene, Wilder. and there are signs in UCSC saying motorized vehicles are not allowed.

Dont spread untruths so you can sell things.
 
#45 · (Edited)
Mike in SC said:
CA State Parks in our area ( Wilder Ranch, Foest of Nisene Marks and others ), City and County of Santa Cruz, UCSC, all are good.
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This is a bold faced lie! Not one of these places allows ebikes. They are expressly forbidden in all Santa Cruz County Parks, in Demo and in Wilder. UCSC is still grey mostly but they are banned on the single track there as well.

I applaud your bravery for jumping into this forum, but these trail recommendations are way off base. They are self-serving and reckless.

There is a spot for ebikes (commuting and errands they are as good as cars) but these trails are not them. And no, it doesn't matter how much trail work the proprietor has done.
 
#46 ·
I rode Wilder with a couple of buds this past Saturday and we saw a group of six e-bike riders on the Eucalyptus Loop trail. Were they breaking the law?

According to the MTB Project website, they're allowed.
https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/7019596/wilder-ranch-singletrack-loops

I didn't see any signs that read "NO E-bikes allowed" and Wilder's website doesn't say anything. So who's right?
 
#47 ·
eBikes not allowed in state parks or JDSF Mendo area

Mike in SC said:
CA State Parks in our area ( Wilder Ranch, Foest of Nisene Marks and others ), City and County of Santa Cruz, UCSC, all are good.
Click to expand...
Just to keep this forum up to date: eBikes are banned in all the Sonoma-Mendocino state parks units here on the coast as well as the Jackson (JDSF). Sorry...
 
#48 ·
Mike in SC said:
Hey ziscwg, If you can make it, we will have a booth at the MBoSC Old Cabin Classic MTB Race & Festival this Sat May 19 at Wilder Ranch - going to be a great time.

We'll have a booth with several bikes you can ride - both Haibike AllMtn's and Focus JAM2's (we expect to have one SAM2 medium). Candidly, the riding locations will be touch and go as the race progresses through the day, but you should be able to get some time on these.
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Well, I think I will attend as my buddy and his wife are racing. I certainly know the area well enough to find a trail they are not racing on. i can't race anymore, but I scream at racers to go harder and suck it up on the Enchanted climb as it used to be so much harder.

I can handle a size M Sam2. I'm kinda inbetween sizes, but usually opt for the large.

I have yet to get on a Jam2 as I missed out at getting on one at Sea Otter. I hope you have one of those also
 
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Discussion starter · #49 ·
ziscwg said:
Well, I think I will attend as my buddy and his wife are racing. I certainly know the area well enough to find a trail they are not racing on. i can't race anymore, but I scream at racers to go harder and suck it up on the Enchanted climb as it used to be so much harder.

I can handle a size M Sam2. I'm kinda inbetween sizes, but usually opt for the large.

I have yet to get on a Jam2 as I missed out at getting on one at Sea Otter. I hope you have one of those also
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Cool. We'll definitely have a few JAM2's. FWIW, while we are still tight on the JAM2, they are in better supply than the SAM2.
 
Discussion starter · #50 ·
Yep, eBikes are presently restricted in Soquel Demonstration State Forest.

I've personally spoken to representatives of the City of Santa Cruz, County of Santa Cruz, Santa Cruz District of CA State Parks and UCSC. They all allow legal eBikes on their bike trails.
 
#52 · (Edited)
ubermustang said:
I rode Wilder with a couple of buds this past Saturday and we saw a group of six e-bike riders on the Eucalyptus Loop trail. Were they breaking the law?

According to the MTB Project website, they're allowed.
https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/7019596/wilder-ranch-singletrack-loops

I didn't see any signs that read "NO E-bikes allowed" and Wilder's website doesn't say anything. So who's right?
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I'm right...................
There's always time for a bigger piece of apple pie (referring to post 37 and the pie, pie, pie and more pie.)
 
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#53 ·
If you poach on your acoustic bike and incessantly try to protect NorCal from electric-assist bikes poaching what were designated "non-motorized trails" 50 years ago, I invite you to go have sex with yourself. Good grief....

If you follow all trail rules, God bless you and fight on against ebikes... but its kind of like rooting against the Golden State Warriors at this point.

Whatever you pedal, be nice & say hi. Ding your bell when rounding blind turns. Slow and say hello. Yield to pedestrians and equestrians. Ride it, don't slide it. Show up for trailwork days.
 
Discussion starter · #54 ·
5k bike 50cent legs said:
Mike, what is the definition of a legal eBike?
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Hey 5k bike, (short version) of a legal eBike in CA:

Class 1. Under 750W mtr, assistance up to 20MPH. pedal-assist only (motor activates only when pedaled).
Class 2. Under 750W mtr, assistance up to 20MPH. pedal-assist and a throttle.
Class 3. Under 750W mtr, assistance up to 28MPH. pedal-assist only (motor activates only when pedaled).

In CA:
-Legal eBikes treated like bikes - no registration, insurance, or license required.
-On pavement, the default is Class 1 and 2 may go anywhere a bicycle is allowed. A Class 3 is supposed to remain on the roadway or a bike lane (not multi-use pathways).
-On dirt - it's left up to land manager

For perspective, a 750W mtr equals about 1 HP. The vast majority of eBikes are Class 1 with motors that are 250-500W made by Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha, etc.
 
#55 ·
Mike in SC said:
Yep, eBikes are presently restricted in Soquel Demonstration State Forest.

I've personally spoken to representatives of the City of Santa Cruz, County of Santa Cruz, Santa Cruz District of CA State Parks and UCSC. They all allow legal eBikes on their bike trails.
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Hi Mike -

Speaking to a representative doesn't necessarily represent policy and you can typically get the response you want by asking the question a specific way.

For now, signage at EMT and Demo expressly forbid e-bikes. The policy at Wilder is fire road access is legal, single tracks are not - signage is inconsistent at best. In Santa Cruz county, policy is multi-use paved trails permitted, fire roads permitted, trails not.

As an aside, Wilder also has a 15 mph speed limit. Not that any bike rider is truly paying attention to it.

On the upside for eMTB, Santa Clara County has a policy that allows all class 1 and 2 eBikes on any county trail. That is nearly 400 miles of legal and approved access just over the hill.

Seems fair to be transparent on both sides.

A
 
#56 ·
Empty_Beer said:
If you poach on your acoustic bike and incessantly try to protect NorCal from electric-assist bikes poaching what were designated "non-motorized trails" 50 years ago, I invite you to go have sex with yourself. Good grief....

If you follow all trail rules, God bless you and fight on against ebikes... but its kind of like rooting against the Golden State Warriors at this point.

Whatever you pedal, be nice & say hi. Ding your bell when rounding blind turns. Slow and say hello. Yield to pedestrians and equestrians. Ride it, don't slide it. Show up for trailwork days.
Click to expand...
I heart you.
 
#57 ·
Mike - A bit of searching around the internet and it looks pretty easy to get around speed limiters from all the manufacturers.

The line between dirt bikes and electric bicycles is getting more blurry with electric dirt bikes and higher powered ebikes... it's also hard to spot some ebikes unless they're whipping by you (batteries tucked nicely into the frames like the Focus Jam2, Specialized Levo).

Mountain bikers (or anyone really) tend to adhere to the laws that they would like to listen to, and actual enforcement of ebike bans would be spotty at best (even over at midpen ;) )

The closest public legal dirt bike tracks are in San Jose and Hollister. If the State Park Santa Cruz District bans ebikes, that would bring the public legal e-mtb in the county to only the fireroads at UCSC (ha) and City of Santa Cruz. You mentioned County of Santa Cruz parks but there are no legal bike trail systems at any county park atm. San Vincente draft public access plan has a blanket ban on ebikes.


With all these points in mind, what made you decide to open an e-bike shop selling e-mtb in Santa Cruz?
I guess I'm looking for your overall philosophy of the intersection of trail use and human nature. Lol, nothing too hard.
 
#58 ·
AaGro said:
Hi Mike -

Speaking to a representative doesn't necessarily represent policy and you can typically get the response you want by asking the question a specific way.

For now, signage at EMT and Demo expressly forbid e-bikes. The policy at Wilder is fire road access is legal, single tracks are not - signage is inconsistent at best. In Santa Cruz county, policy is multi-use paved trails permitted, fire roads permitted, trails not.

As an aside, Wilder also has a 15 mph speed limit. Not that any bike rider is truly paying attention to it.

On the upside for eMTB, Santa Clara County has a policy that allows all class 1 and 2 eBikes on any county trail. That is nearly 400 miles of legal and approved access just over the hill.

Seems fair to be transparent on both sides.

A
Click to expand...
Funny I was crafting a similar reply on legality of ebikes.

Where is the sign at Pogonip on ebike use? There shouldn't be anything particular to EMT vs UConn, both are MUTs in the same city park.
Is your Wilder legal access restricted to fireroad coming from signage or Ranger/Supervisor staff at Wilder?
 
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