Coil Shock Feedback, Options, Pros/Cons, Co$t - For Smash

rotax7 · Apr 27, 2018

Putting together a list of coil shock options to consider for my Smash.

Rockshox Super Dlx RCT coil - $550? + $$ spring (~459g body [230x65mm]) 50# spring increments. Notes: Bang for buck looks good, especially if I could find a used option from another GG owner who is upgrading. Well tested on GG bikes. Readily available.

Cane Creek DBcoil CS - $665 + $35 standard spring, [+$60 VALT spring] (~454g body) 50# spring increments. Notes: More costly than other options. Less common option for GGs.

MRP Hazzard (w/ CS) - $649 + $40 std spring, [+$130 light spring] (487g body) 50# spring increments; Enduro SL offers 25# increments. Notes: MRP. Heavier. More cost. Should be tested/setup/supported well by GG riders and owners once released? MRP reads/responds on mtbr (see below).

FYI, a 230x60 MRP Hazzard with a rear bearing mount (and 6x30 front hardware) and 500lb Enduro SL spring is 867.2 g.

Enduro SL springs will be in 25lb increments from 375-500. Plus a 550 and 600. Weights should range from 254 - 444 g.

Enduro Progressive springs will be offered in 6 rates: 300-360, 350-420, 400-480, 450-540, 500-600, and 550-660. Weights from 307-483 g.

Hazzard bodies will top out around 487 g. Shorter shocks are lighter.

NOAH SEARS
MRP - Brand Manager

Fox DHX2 (w/ CS) - $628 + $29 std spring, [+$130 SLS] (~445g? body, ~832g rtr w/ std spring) 25# spring increments. Notes: 25# spring increments could be beneficial for my lighter (160# rtr) weight. A bit lighter. Less cost.

DVO Jade - $585 + $$ spring (425g body) Notes: Don't know if they have/build a size to fit the Smash. Lower cost. Low weight.

Push 11-6 - $$$$ + $$ (~800-850g rtr w/ spring) Notes: Too co$tly [for me and my intentions]. Top dawg. Proven. Support.

So, I like what the Fox offers with tuning (25# increment springs), weight, and cost. But a used RS SuperD coil would likely be best bang4buck if available.

I do intend to wait for Hazzard to become available and tested first, as I'm likely 6+ months out on a coil purchase, so just beginning to gather data/feedback. LMK what yours is.

What shock, what bike, what you like/dislike, any/all details I welcome to make an informed decision.

GreenCowman · Apr 27, 2018

I have a Smash with a Super Deluxe Coil, I haven't had the bike very long so I'm still working on dialing in the setup, but so far it's been pretty good. It tracks very well and has a decent amount of support deep in the stroke (mostly due to how progressive the frame is), the climb switch is very effective but The Smash is surprisingly firm under power anyways even in plush mode that I haven't used it much. Only thing I wish it had was high speed compression adjustment, as it can sit a bit deep into the midstroke on bigger high speed chunder sometimes. The Super Deluxe shocks are also very simple internally especially compared to the older Vivid lineup, so service is generally a lot cheaper and easier, if that matters to you.

I'd also be careful with some shocks that you get the right compression tune, I remember The Loam Wolf saying that they struggled with running their Smash with a DHX2 as there wasn't a tune available at the time that worked well with the Smash, not sure if this is still an issue.

rotax7 · Apr 28, 2018

Gvus2001 said:
I'd also be careful with some shocks that you get the right compression tune, I remember The Loam Wolf saying that they struggled with running their Smash with a DHX2 as there wasn't a tune available at the time that worked well with the Smash, not sure if this is still an issue.

Thanks for the reminder on the fox tune concern, I remember reading that review a while back.

vikb · Apr 28, 2018

I've got the SD Coil on my Smash. No complaints, but it's early days and my first coil shock in nearly 20yrs.

I did want to mention Avalanche Racing will custom tune the SD Coil for you with their SSD damper. If the Smash continues to impress I'm considering getting this done in the winter when I have it down for maintenance.

Streetdoctor · Apr 28, 2018

The Push is definitely not the heaviest. I believe the thread comparing weights was an 11-6 with spring vs everything else WITHOUT spring. The RS SD coil with a 500lb spring is over 1000g. The push is around 800.

stripes · Apr 30, 2018

I've ridden the Shred Dogg with both the SD Coil and the 11-6. It uses the same shock size as the Smash.

I really didn't like the RS suspension with the Shred Dogg because it really felt overdampened for my personal tastes. I want to try the DHX2 on it, since I'll probably need a backup shock when I send in the 11-6 for service, so it's good to hear about needing to make sure the right tune is available.

G-AIR · Apr 30, 2018

At these prices the Avalanche chubbie/woodie seems like a no brained. Custom tune for you and your bike, durable, well made. The only thing it doesn't have is a climb switch.

vikb · Apr 30, 2018

G-AIR said:
At these prices the Avalanche chubbie/woodie seems like a no brained. Custom tune for you and your bike, durable, well made. The only thing it doesn't have is a climb switch.

If your GG bike comes with a SD Coil the Avy Upgrade is ~$250 and you get a climb switch. Do it when your shock needed a damper service anyways and it's even less $$ as an incremental cost. :thumbsup:

NoahColorado · Apr 30, 2018

FYI, a 230x60 MRP Hazzard with a rear bearing mount (and 6x30 front hardware) and 500lb Enduro SL spring is 867.2 g.

Enduro SL springs will be in 25lb increments from 375-500. Plus a 550 and 600. Weights should range from 254 - 444 g.

Enduro Progressive springs will be offered in 6 rates: 300-360, 350-420, 400-480, 450-540, 500-600, and 550-660. Weights from 307-483 g.

Hazzard bodies will top out around 487 g. Shorter shocks are lighter.

Khai · Apr 30, 2018

NoahColorado said:
FYI, a 230x60 MRP Hazzard with a rear bearing mount (and 6x30 front hardware) and 500lb Enduro SL spring is 867.2 g.

Enduro SL springs will be in 25lb increments from 375-500. Plus a 550 and 600. Weights should range from 254 - 444 g.

Enduro Progressive springs will be offered in 6 rates: 300-360, 350-420, 400-480, 450-540, 500-600, and 550-660. Weights from 307-483 g.

Hazzard bodies will top out around 487 g. Shorter shocks are lighter.

Thanks for that detail. Do you happen to know the weight difference between the standard and SL springs as well as when they'll be available for purchase?

Mudguard · Apr 30, 2018

Quite a good article on Pinkbike from Ohlins on coil and air shocks

PBIt's an interesting talking point at the moment in mountain biking, a lot of enduro riders are going to coil and a lot of downhillers to air?

Terje Hansen - One of the explanations I got was that they can't get the linkages of the downhill bikes progressive enough. That's the only reason they have air on there, because they can make it more progressive. I think they sacrifice some of the functions, I know for a fact that Aaron Gwin for instance is not as good, traction, comfort, stability, with air, but at the same time he needs it to bomb into anything. Maybe for Aaron Gwin it doesn't matter how it feels all the time, it's just a matter of going from A to B as fast as you can. That's the only explanation I have.

Johan Jarl - There are solutions but as we said before it hadn't been possible to add them due to the available space like our hydraulic bump stops that we have in rally cars and motocross. We have different levels of sophisticated systems, but if there had been more room we can for sure improve bottoming resistance quite a bit. That could open up more coil shocks, but I think you are right. Everyone is talking about progressivity which is harder with the coil shock for sure, you see in motocross if they don't have enough progressivity they need to have the hydraulic bump stops. I think for enduro racing, especially the long runs, it's definitely an advantage with the coil shock. Coil springs have got lighter, the weight difference depending on what shocks you compare is around 200-250g. I think it is more of a feeling of what you want from your bike rather than the weight. For sure if I go ride our flat trails around here, okay you like the poppy feeling off an air shock, but when you start going down I like the coil shock better. I understand people who like the air shock rather than the coil shock, which can feel a little bit dead sometimes, everything can get too stable, you can have a little bit too much grip, you want to feel alive when you are riding, so I would say from our eyes it's more what you prefer. If you are not racing I would go for what you like best.

G-AIR · May 1, 2018

Totally agree. I was unaware the SD coil had a climb switch. ?

vikb said:
If your GG bike comes with a SD Coil the Avy Upgrade is ~$250 and you get a climb switch. Do it when your shock needed a damper service anyways and it's even less $$ as an incremental cost. :thumbsup:

vikb · May 1, 2018

G-AIR said:
Totally agree. I was unaware the SD coil had a climb switch. 👍

Stock the lever on the SD Coil is a lockout. So personally I find that not very useful. If I was going to crank up a paved road for an hour I'd use it, but beyond that I don't want my suspension locked out.

With the Avy upgrade [I think] you can request various levels of damping at the two lever positions. So I'd go with 1) wide open DH/techy climb mode and 2) medium damping for climbing smoother trails/flow trail mode.

The stock tune is pretty heavily damped even wide open so I think the Avy upgrade would be a real benefit.

Scott2MTB · May 1, 2018

vikb said:
Stock the lever on the SD Coil is a lockout. So personally I find that not very useful. If I was going to crank up a paved road for an hour I'd use it, but beyond that I don't want my suspension locked out.

I agree that it has minimal usefulness while climbing, but it's not actually true that the switch is a lockout, the shock still moves (at least on mine). Just not that much for low speed events. To me, it feels a bit firmer than the DPX2 trail mode, but not nearly as firm as the DPX2 climb setting.

vikb · May 1, 2018

Scott2MTB said:
I agree that it has minimal usefulness while climbing, but it's not actually true that the switch is a lockout, the shock still moves (at least on mine). Just not that much for low speed events. To me, it feels a bit firmer than the DPX2 trail mode, but not nearly as firm as the DPX2 climb setting.

The shock will move with the lever set to climb, but it's so heavily damped it's a lockout in my mind. It's far more heavily damped than say the CC shocks with climb switched engaged fully. And when I do use the climb switch on my CC shocks I only turn it on ~30%.

Scott2MTB · May 1, 2018

vikb said:
The shock will move with the lever set to climb, but it's so heavily damped it's a lockout in my mind. It's far more heavily damped than say the CC shocks with climb switched engaged fully. And when I do use the climb switch on my CC shocks I only turn it on ~30%.

Fair enough. In my mind, I think of the "climb" mode on the DPS as a lockout, because the shock doesn't move at all.

As far as usefulness, the SD platform switch is great for enduro stages with long pedally sections like we have at the various SoCal venues. So I like it - just not for climbing.

bigcrs · May 2, 2018

G-AIR said:
At these prices the Avalanche chubbie/woodie seems like a no brained. Custom tune for you and your bike, durable, well made. The only thing it doesn't have is a climb switch.

In my experience, an avy tuned product negates the need for "climb switches". And so do most suspension platforms this day and age.

.thumper. · May 2, 2018

bigcrs said:
In my experience, an avy tuned product negates the need for "climb switches". And so do most suspension platforms this day and age.

Agreed. I almost never switch circuits on my Elevensix on my Smash for climbing. It pedals so well in crush mode that I only use the other circuit for smooth flow trails.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

stripes · May 2, 2018

.thumper. said:
Agreed. I almost never switch circuits on my Elevensix on my Smash for climbing. It pedals so well in crush mode that I only use the other circuit for smooth flow trails.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Not on the Smash but on the Shred Dogg in trail mode I prefer the shock to be pretty open in trail mode, especially on technical climbs. I go a lot faster on that uphill as well as down.

mdc · May 2, 2018

I have an 11-6 on my Pistola and could not be happier. The weight is pretty much a non issue, and the bike performs soooo good. As other have said- I rarely ( never?) use the climb switch, and traction on techie climbs is fantastic.

Regarding the price- Yes it is expensive, but the thing that sold me on it (besides the performance) was the fact that you can send the shock back to Push to be fitted for a new bike in the future ( unless a Push coil won't fit- which is probably a short list). For a few hundred more than other coils you get a custom tuned rear shock, that can be used on future bikes for years to come......

Coil Shock Feedback, Options, Pros/Cons, Co$t - For Smash

rotax7

GreenCowman

rotax7

vikb

Streetdoctor

stripes

G-AIR

vikb

NoahColorado

Khai

Mudguard

G-AIR

vikb

Scott2MTB

vikb

Scott2MTB

bigcrs

.thumper.

stripes

mdc

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