Cant make up my mind

maxflia · Jan 23, 2018

This in not exactly another what bike should I buy my son thread but pretty close.

My youngest and should be last son is turning 5 the end of February. He is currently riding the wheels off an old 16" specialized that has coaster breaks and is heavy. We have built trails with log crossing and jumps near the house. He loves to ride and I love to ride so I want him to ride as much as possible and stay of the screens. We live in the mountains of NC and have a lot of hills and nice trails around including beginner type trails. The hills in the neighborhood really give him trouble but he tries and is proud when he makes it.

Im looking to get him a 20" bike for his birthday.

Im about ready to order the Obrea MX 20 Team Disk. It has everything Im looking for. rigid front fork, thumb shifters (not grip shift), disk brakes (Hydraulic is a plus) upgraded rear derailleur. Only cons are. I would like a plus size tire and a bit pricey but doable.

Other considerations are the Scott Scale Jr 20 plus and the Cannondale Cujo 20. Draw backs to these are the grip shift and the mechanical disk brakes oposed to thumb style and hydraulic.

One other thought is buy something like the Raleigh Rowdy or similar and add the disk brakes and upgrade the sifters and tires.

Does anyone know of any other 20" plus size bikes with disk brakes and thumb style shifters?

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. One last bit. I plan on selling the bike once he grows out of it so resell would be important and would help offset the price and the price of his next bike.

jestep · Jan 23, 2018

Personally, I suggest a normal wheeled 20in bike. The extra rotating mass and sluggish turning of the big tires doesn't do kids a lot of good. But they do look like really cool bikes.

Otherwise, just swap the grip shifter for a Shimano Altus/Acera/M310 7 speed trigger. They're like $10 and are worlds better than grip shifters IMO.

If the mechs are setup well, they should be sufficient although still not near as light as hydros. But, literally thousands or millions of people have used mech discs, they're not something I'd be super scared of for a light weight kid.

svinyard · Jan 23, 2018

We are on a Spawn YJ 20" with the ultra-nice Brood Maxtion 2.20in tires. We've never once wanted a plus-tire. Ride lots of climbs and some legit downhill (not ultra rocky, but some drops and stuff). Kid just turned 6. I'd skip the plus tire and the extra weight and just get a nice tire like the Maxtion and set it up tubeless if you really wanted an upgrade. Do that if needed (its not really unless you are ripping super hard). That bike is awesome. Thank you for not supporting the industry boat-anchor fork BS too. Rigid is great. I like that bike a lot and your kid will love it. I'd probably only swap out the pedals for WellGo KC-0008 or something like that. You'll kid will stay on the bike much better and be more confident for sure assuming he is wearing some vans shoes (waffle-cone bottoms).

RMCDan · Jan 23, 2018

maxflia said:
One other thought is buy something like the Raleigh Rowdy or similar and add the disk brakes and upgrade the sifters and tires.

Don't do it. You'll need a new fork with disc brake mounts, new hubs/wheel build, brakeset, rotors, and new drivetrain. Even if you get the bike free and have some of that stuff in your parts bin it's going to be a false economy. The geo also sucks and no amount of money can fix that.

maxflia said:
Does anyone know of any other 20" plus size bikes with disk brakes and thumb style shifters?

IMO, the Norco Fluid 2.3+ is the best bike in the 20"+ category: Norco Bicycles

maxflia said:
One last bit. I plan on selling the bike once he grows out of it so resell would be important and would help offset the price and the price of his next bike.

In that case, if at all possible bite the bullet and get a Spawn YJ20. It is sooo much more bike than the Orbea, only weighs about 1 pound more, and will re-sell for way more.

svinyard · Jan 23, 2018

Dan is a good source and I agree with all his points. Regarding the Norco fluid 2.3+ though, I recently got some hands on experience with that bike as my buddy bought it for his son. It's beautiful in person. The spring fork totally sucks tho and it's way heavy (no manual practicing or drops) and I'd want to replace it with a rigid immediately. The cranks are also ultra long. I didn't measure them but they seemed REALLY long. At the very least 140mm. Norco also had a crank recall on that bike as well so if you do buy one, make sure the cranks have been updated. Maybe my eyes decieved me a bit but they were almost as long as my buddies (kids Dad) Pivot adult cranks. And it's still not a cheap bike. I like that Cujo bike with some add hydraulic brakes for a Plus Bike.

SactoGeoff · Jan 24, 2018

I think you're on the right track with the original bike choice.

A Brood Tire is 2.2 which nearly qualifies a "plus" for 20" bike. It would soften things up quite a bit.

Short of splurging for a YJ 20" the only other bike that comes to mind is the Prevelo Zulu 3. It's $899 and hits the middle price between things like the Flow and the Spawn.

svinyard · Jan 24, 2018

The Norco Charger 2.1 is a sick bike for 650$. Air fork, hydraulic brakes, decent weight, nice geo. For the extra 100$ you get a pretty decent package. That was my choice if I wasn't going for the Spawn and didn't want rigid.

maxflia · Jan 24, 2018

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I've spent more time picking out my sons 20" bike then I did picking out my own. Im kind of down to four bikes.

Spawn Raiju 20"

Norco FLUID 2.3+

Norco CHARGER 2.1

Orbea MX 20 TEAM DISC

One area that I was overlooking is the gearing.

Spawn Raiju 20 12-28T cassette, Does not say
Fluid 11-34 cassette 28 Crank
Charger 11-32 cassette Crank not listed
MX 20 11-34 cassette 34 crank

Seems like the fluid has a more low range gearing. Im thinking that is a plus. I was really into the Spawn but that 12-28T seems kind of tight and might make climbing a little tougher. I like the shifters/derailleur on that Spawn. The Spawn and MX 20 just look light and quick. I think im now leaning toward the Fluid. Those bigger tires seem like they would help on all the rocks and roots we have on the trails. This is about to drive me crazy.

I talked to a shop that is pretty close and they said I could get the Fluid for $479.99. Seems pretty good price to me. I asked about replacing the from fork and they where going to get back to me.

maxflia · Jan 25, 2018

Are you saying the fork is heavy or the whole bike is heavy? Thats my only concern about the HT 2.3+

RMCDan · Jan 25, 2018

maxflia said:
Are you saying the fork is heavy or the whole bike is heavy? Thats my only concern about the HT 2.3+

The fork is heavy. A rigid fork will lighten it up but it's still going to be a few pounds heavier than the non-plus options. I hadn't noticed it before, but svinyard is totally right, the cranks on the Fluid 2.3+ look really long. The chainring on the Charger 2.1 looks to be a 34t or 36t, that's going to making climbing tough. It also looks non-replaceable. You'd probably need to replace the cranks on either Norco.

I can't believe the Raiju is spec'ed with a 12-28 cassette. As much as I love Spawn, the Raiju is easily the worst bike in their lineup. I wouldn't get it over the Orbea.

Out of those four, I'd say get the Orbea. The 34t chainring isn't ideal, but the cranks look to have a 104 BCD spider so you could easily swap that for a 30t N/W from Raceface.

That said, long-term I still think you'd be best off with a YJ20. It's certainly more upfront, but it won't nickel-and-dime you on upgrades and resale will be a lot better.

maxflia · Jan 26, 2018

I'm pretty sure i'm going to pull the trigger on the Orbea. A shop close by can get one in about a week. Cost is the same as online but local I will have to pay tax but its worth it to support the "local" shops.

Im sure my son will destroy the stock tires quickly with his skids and all. I'll look into maxing out the tires and going tubeless to help with the bumps.

I saw in a few other post about the 20MX that the crank was different then what was pictured and the 20MX had an uncommon bolt pattern (maybe bmx or road) that made it harder to replace the ring. Hopefully the 34 front 34 rear gearing will be low enough if not it will be good motivation. I cant make it to easy for him.

The YJ20 is sweet but I cant justify spending that much on a 20". Maybe when its time to move to the 24" and he does more serious trail riding but for now when its about a 50/50 mix of trail and neighborhood. The Orbea should work fine, but that YJ20 is a sweet ride.

RMCDan · Jan 26, 2018

Ah, you hadn't mentioned the 50% neighborhood use. Yeah, the Orbea is a good call then. That sucks about the cranks. There's just no reason for them to use any spider size larger than 104 BCD since rings up to 38t will fit one. It's baffling since it's a such a well-executed bike otherwise. A set of 127 mm cranks from Spawn is an option if needed.

My guess is that 34x34 will be marginal-but-doable on steeper stuff. He'll probably push a few things that he might pedal in 30x34 but will be fine otherwise. My son is eight and spends a lot of time in his 30x36 low gear when he climbs his Rokkusuta 20, but it's also a 25 lb bike.

**This Space Reserved For "I Told You So" Post When This Thread Is Bumped in Six Months Asking For Suspension Fork Suggestions**

j/k

maxflia · Jan 26, 2018

My son is only 5 and we live in a nice quiet neighborhood with very little to no traffic. We also have a lot of open woods that we "build" trails in that are pretty flat. We spend a lot of time riding around and practicing our "tricks". Neither one of us cares where we are riding as long as we are riding together. RMCDan you are probably right about the fork. It seems like what ever you dont have thats what you want. I really hope I'm looking for a suspension fork in the near future. That means he is really progressing. Thanks for all the help. This has been a very good learning experience.

Steve-XtC · Jan 27, 2018

I'd echo the comments on the fat tyres for kids especially if you're planning on riding together. Extra weight and drag will make it more like pushing together after a short time.

I'd also say wise choice not spending on the 20"... to be host if I was buying 20" again I'd go for a used bike. We only got 9mo out of his 20... HOWEVER the 20" was from when we started off in the neighbourhood and the local woods and 9mo later were hitting the reds at trail centres riding 10 miles or 20 miles on firetrails

By this time the bike was holding him back but he was big enough for a 24.

maxflia said:
I'm pretty sure i'm going to pull the trigger on the Orbea. A shop close by can get one in about a week. Cost is the same as online but local I will have to pay tax but its worth it to support the "local" shops.

I liked what I saw of the Orbea but hadn't seen the crank BCD....

Im sure my son will destroy the stock tires quickly with his skids and all. I'll look into maxing out the tires and going tubeless to help with the bumps.

If you still want some bigger tyres then might be worth looking for some extra wheels.
Have a pair for around the neighbourhood and another for when you go riding together? Just a thought but one light faster rolling set and one with bigger but heavy tires... possibly harder in disk wheels to find pre-built but we got the spare 20"s (in rim brakes) really cheap.

Cant make up my mind

maxflia

jestep

svinyard

RMCDan

svinyard

SactoGeoff

svinyard

maxflia

maxflia

RMCDan

maxflia

RMCDan

maxflia

Steve-XtC

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