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Onyx Racing Hubs - Sprag Clutch vs other types of Engagement

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#421 ·
Have you tried dt swiss with the 54poe upgrade and made a comparison? Ive always wondered if the extra poe offered better performance on techy climbs. The dt 350 is such bang for the buck in terms of price and weight. The 322, torch, onyx are sp bling, its tough to resist. Makes my dt swiss very mundane.

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#423 · (Edited)
verrocchio100 said:
Hey Jim, any "projected" target rear hub weight in ISO and CL?

My inner weight weenie wants to know!
Click to expand...
I do have some photos I took a while back, these are the Boost versions. We are still trimming here and there, but these weights will probably be pretty close. The updated front hubs will approximately 160g for the ISO 6-bolt boost version.
 

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#427 ·
We are close, but probably won't happen. The clutch mechanism requires certain design criteria that other hubs don't need. It is a trade off for the benefits it provides. However, we did get the front down to about 160g, so that's a bit lighter than some of our competition and will bring the total set weight a little closer. I don't ever expect to be the lightest, not in the cards, just trying to get it as best as possible while still keeping the reliability up.
 
#428 ·
We just shipped out some pre-production test wheels this week to our best riders. We'll see what they come back with. Trying to get all the little details wrapped up before we start making them in our production runs. Nothing worse then building a bunch and then having to change something later because you got ahead of yourself. We want and need to produce the best we are capable of, lots of great competition out there ya know!

Nothing has changed on the Lefty hubs, there is not a lot of demand for them and we have to keep to a certain design due to the fork mount, so this really limits the options to reduce weight without looking like a replica.
 
#430 ·
Jayem said:
I have an engineer friend testing various fat hubs in the cold, including onyx. While they have a great drive mech, according to him, there is little support for the axle by the bearings, other more traditional designs like hope and DT do a much better job here, not sure if this applies outside of the fat hubs, but it was interesting and could be a source of this cracking problem. He was indicating the heavier/more aggressive the rider, the worse this would be.
Click to expand...
I cannot disagree more. To speak about Hope, that I was using on my fatbikes, that was exactly the issue, to much load on the axle, and free wheel hub. Hope has to small bearings and have not enough strenght to hold my my weight (265). After replacing all bearings in the Hope hub, the bearings was more or less grinding after 3-4 rides. The bearings in the free wheel hub get so much load that it after a while blows up. The balls are grinding all metal and then tears it apart. Especially the one bearing closest to hub shell.

With the Onyx, I have experienced a few years with trouble free riding. Almost without servicing these hubs either. I think it has to do with the exactly that the axle is having big and solid bearings, and three in total, one at each side and one in the middle. The axle is from steel, and the the sprag cluthing are also taking up the energy like it should, locking around the axle. Not like a pawl/rachet system placed on one side of the hub getting twisted on a small surface on the axle.

The issue with the cracked hub shells comes from aluminum design that have had some issues, I suppose. I have not heard about any fawlt on the steel versions?
 
#431 ·
We have had a few of these axles crack. He is referring to the drive side end of the axle where the drive side nut is tightened on the end of the axle. We haven't had many and we have linked that problem to the nut being or becoming loose. A drop of blue Loctite on the threads has fixes this problem. When that nut wiggles loose or isn't tighten properly, it rocks ever so slightly back and forth, fatiguing the metal and eventually will crack it. Now remember the through bolt is still there supporting and this really doesn't cause anything noticeable unless you take off the wheel, then you see theres a loose piece. We use a 6902 bearing on all our drivers, 28mm od and 15mm id. Others use either a 28mm od x 17mm id or a 6802 which is 24mm x 15mm, or some sort of variant of this. What does this mean? From our testing the load on the bearings is significantly higher with these smaller bearings, causing them to either fail sooner and/or roll less efficiently. The larger balls in the 6902 seem to solve this, however there is a trade-off, they are a little heavier and we have to thread the portion just on the outside (15mm od portion of axle) in order to get our drive cap nut on. Our new lighter hubs address this differently by using press-on end caps like others while still using the 6902 bearing, so no threads in this area, but this too comes with a trade-off, the new hubs will not have the bearing side-load adjustability.
 
#432 ·
I, for one, have little to no issues with my hubs that do not have preload adjustment (i9).

Agreed, more support with larger bearings is a sound trade off for a little increase in unsprung weight.

With regards to the weight pix, what are the hub profiles to the according weight?

Are the flange spacings, flange diameter and flange thickness the same as the current production hubs?

Or are the flanges beefed up in thickness for spoke support then the edges scalloped for weight reduction?

Are the spoke holes angled and champfered to relieve spoke contact to flange. I do dislike having the flanges marred by the spokes when I get them rebuilt.

Thx Jim!
 
#433 ·
The preload adjustment is just a fine tuning feature to gain the smallest advantage out of your hubs.

They are all boost spacing 148/12 hubs in the photos. Just the Centerlock/ISO/HG/XD combinations of each.

Flanges are changed a bit to accommodate the weight reducing scalping. We do this for 1. weight and 2. reduction in flange height while still allowing the spokes to be installed easily.
The flange angle did change a little on this design as well to help deal with the reduction in material, however the spoke hole diameters and such are all the same or very close to current models, so close I don't anticipate spoke length changes to/from same models. We do have hub-specific spoke calculators built into our website (which is about to be updated again). The flanges are angled to reduce spoke contact as well. Thanks for the questions.
 
#436 ·
The current design will stay as is and still be offered with all the extras as standard. The new hub design will be a complete model line in itself. We are still deciding on a few things to reduce price on this new line as well. 1. Steel bearings 2. No upgrade program on this line 3. limit colors on end-caps etc. 4. no custom engraving

These are things we'll have to iron out before production launch, but this hub line will be targeted more towards the mainstream with concerns over weight and cost.
 
#437 ·
The flanges on the iso 6-bolt design need to be taller in order to get the spokes in. On the drive side we are limited to how small this height can be due to the clutch drive system. The disc side on the center lock design has a much smaller diameter so we can reduce the flange height quite a bit. This make all our center lock hubs lighter. In addition, the XD version are lighter then their HG counterparts due to the SRAM design vs the Shimano.

On the center lock DS flange we reduce the height to save weight and can do so because the NDS flange is smaller yet. On the ISO flanges this is not the case. If we used the same DS flange height as the center lock design we'd have a case where the DS flange is smaller diameter than the NDS, this would amplify the spoke tension imbalance already on wheels, so we keep them the same height to minimize it.
 
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