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Community effort to create a component tier list?

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#21 ·
Everyone is subjective when it comes to value per feature. Funny that It's easier to convince people on the net to buy certain components easier than my Real life friends.

My 2 big sleepers are hope brakes and thomson Ti handlebars.

Ive bled my hopes one time in 5 years.

Ti handle bar takes out lots of chatter from the trail due to the damping effects... + it will last forever. Worth the long term investment



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
Toot3344556 said:
Everyone is subjective when it comes to value per feature. Funny that It's easier to convince people on the net to buy certain components easier than my Real life friends.

My 2 big sleepers are hope brakes and thomson Ti handlebars.

Ive bled my hopes one time in 5 years.

Ti handle bar takes out lots of chatter from the trail due to the damping effects... + it will last forever. Worth the long term investment

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Yes, everyone's subjective about the value. That's why it's up for debate. Since you state that you recognize that, I'll take that as you being open for even your subjective entries being up for debate.

You mean Ti makes sharp impacts feel less spiky, due to its springy nature. I doubt chatter gets damped, since Ti doesn't have notable damping characteristics. Generally, suspension is used for big hits, and tires, wheels, frame, etc. are used for the smaller chatter (the foam in the bars I listed damps lower energy vibrations). Some of the additional expense of Ti is only realized as value if you actually "wear out" something made in another material... *shrug* people replace bars just to gain additional width, or adjust rise and sweep, or lower weight. You really have to like the geo of that Ti bar. Can you put a shim over another shim, in case handlebar clamp diameters change again?

I bet there's plenty of people who never bled their brakes since their bike was assembled. In fact, I have some 5+ year old bikes with brakes that haven't been bled which still work.

You didn't link anything, so I have no idea what kind of value there is based on your claimed qualities vs the price. There's at least 2 models of Hope brakes currently, but I have no clue what existed 5 years ago in their line-up. I just simply recall that they had braided steel lines (which I didn't understand the point of, besides looking cool).

Added:

Bike
- Niner WFO 9 Jenson SLX $2500 @ Jenson (M, 29er, 150 FS, 142x12, BSA, 1x11, inc/dropper, Black/Blue)

Frame
- Niner Jet 9 Carbon $1076 @ Steep and Cheap (XS/M, 29er, 100mm FS, 142x12, PF30, Red/Orange)

Jenson had some single quantity deals on bikes recently. Saw a decked out Kona Process 134 LTD in M that had KS dropper, Pike RC, 1x, totally usable parts, for $2000 I believe (totally SS grade value). Now they have this Raleigh Skarn for $1450 (take extra 15% off, +6% cashback through AJ), a 100mm FS 29er with tubeless compat rims (S value after extra discounts, IMO). Struggle to find even hardtails in LBS for $1100+tax with tubeless ready rims. Not gonna bother adding them, due to their exclusive nature. Just figured it was worth a mention, to give context to the value grades.
 
#24 ·
phlegm said:
First off, I'm skeptical on how much a bar will tone down chatter.

That said, carbon is said to outperform Ti in that regard, isn't it? (I honestly don't know.)
Click to expand...
Think of the Ti bar as a noise filter (or the dashpot in the classic mass spring dashpot example if you ever took physics or calc).

Ti takes out certain vibrations without flexing.

Carbon bars do this by flexing, and the handlebars are an area where you don't want this feeling. They're 2 different physical characteristics.

That being said, the carbon bar I have is Stiff as an alumnium bar so I don't have much experience.

The kicker though is that Carbon bars don't last forever where as Ti will.
Most mfg's recommend that you replace the carbon bars every 1-2 years.
That is where the value is.
 
#26 ·
zooey said:
Yes, everyone's subjective about the value. That's why it's up for debate. Since you state that you recognize that, I'll take that as you being open for even your subjective entries being up for debate.

You mean Ti makes sharp impacts feel less spiky, due to its springy nature. I doubt chatter gets damped, since Ti doesn't have notable damping characteristics. Generally, suspension is used for big hits, and tires, wheels, frame, etc. are used for the smaller chatter (the foam in the bars I listed damps lower energy vibrations). Some of the additional expense of Ti is only realized as value if you actually "wear out" something made in another material... *shrug* people replace bars just to gain additional width, or adjust rise and sweep, or lower weight. You really have to like the geo of that Ti bar. Can you put a shim over another shim, in case handlebar clamp diameters change again?

I bet there's plenty of people who never bled their brakes since their bike was assembled. In fact, I have some 5+ year old bikes with brakes that haven't been bled which still work.

You didn't link anything, so I have no idea what kind of value there is based on your claimed qualities vs the price. There's at least 2 models of Hope brakes currently, but I have no clue what existed 5 years ago in their line-up. I just simply recall that they had braided steel lines (which I didn't understand the point of, besides looking cool).

Added:

Bike
- Niner WFO 9 Jenson SLX $2500 @ Jenson (M, 29er, 150 FS, 142x12, BSA, 1x11, inc/dropper, Black/Blue)

Frame
- Niner Jet 9 Carbon $1076 @ Steep and Cheap (XS/M, 29er, 100mm FS, 142x12, PF30, Red/Orange)

Jenson had some single quantity deals on bikes recently. Saw a decked out Kona Process 134 LTD in M that had KS dropper, Pike RC, 1x, totally usable parts, for $2000 I believe (totally SS grade value). Now they have this Raleigh Skarn for $1450 (take extra 15% off, +6% cashback through AJ), a 100mm FS 29er with tubeless compat rims (S value after extra discounts, IMO). Struggle to find even hardtails in LBS for $1100+tax with tubeless ready rims. Not gonna bother adding them, due to their exclusive nature. Just figured it was worth a mention, to give context to the value grades.
Click to expand...
This aren't deals in sense that you're saving money from the base price but you're buying components that are comfortable, have replacement parts you can buy and that will last a long time so no links.

** I haven't needed to bleed my brakes in 5 years**
I have the Race Evo M4's but you really can't go wrong with any brakes in the hope lineup.

You are wrong about Ti, they do have a damping nature. They way I think of it is when I'm riding on gravel. The bars don't destroy my hands as much as a AL bar would.

And sure just like any investment value is only realized over long term performance.
 
#28 ·
Toot3344556 said:
Think of the Ti bar as a noise filter (or the dashpot in the classic mass spring dashpot example if you ever took physics or calc).

Ti takes out certain vibrations without flexing.

Carbon bars do this by flexing, and the handlebars are an area where you don't want this feeling. They're 2 different physical characteristics.

That being said, the carbon bar I have is Stiff as an alumnium bar so I don't have much experience.

The kicker though is that Carbon bars don't last forever where as Ti will.
Most mfg's recommend that you replace the carbon bars every 1-2 years.
That is where the value is.
Click to expand...
I respectfully disagree:

Ti vs Carbon (vs Steel)
I haven't found any de facto answers around various materials and "chatter". My definition of it amounts to repetitive, nearly identical input from the riding surface, most notably on rough asphalt, and on road bikes. For an MTB on trails with varying terrain, often soft ground, mud, grass and much larger tires (lower pressures too), I haven't found chatter to be an issue like on road. There's also suspension as an intermediary here before it hits the bars.

For this reason, I see chatter-avoidance as a tough sell for any MTB component.

Replace Carbon Bars Every 1 to 2 Years (Seriously?)
I've never heard of this. Seems ridiculous.

Sean Coffey of Ritchey:
"Any well-made carbon component should be removed and inspected periodically for damage (especially after crashes, shipping or any trauma) but barring any damage, carbon does not have a fatigue life like alloy components and does not fatigue over time. So in theory an undamaged carbon component should hold up indefinitely under normal riding and racing circumstance. However crashes and damage from over-clamping can dramatically reduce durability."
Read more at Ask Nick: Carbon handlebar lifespan, long-lasting tires, and mechanical sabotage | VeloNews.com

Cost
I've lived through 2 bar diameter standards, and now the trend to wider bars and shorter stems. Had I gone with Ti originally, that would arguably be my 3rd bar. I won't mention frame changes, where you might find you'd like a different bar angle/sweep.

So, at $250-400, if you go for a Ti bar, you had better ensure you don't change bikes, and/or fit.
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
*jaw drop at price*

High material thickness/volume reduces vibration. A well compacted carbon (RF SixC) will damp less vibrations than not so well compacted carbon (Joystik bar). The latter feels cheaply made in comparison though. An aluminum bar would damp more than Ti, but it might feel cheaply made in comparison. Damping tends to feel dead; casual people tend to say that the opposite, a lively/springy feel, is more fun/desirable. Those that require damping to achieve a high performance-related goal will find it desirable. Think it's just a matter of people finding strong reactions to contribute to more amusing personalities...

Steel has to be specifically made to have the characteristics known to provide comfort. Such steel generally has less carbon in its alloying and doesn't receive extra processing like hardening--a tubeset like Reynolds 853 isn't as comfortable riding as 4130 custom drawn by an experienced steel frame builder, but 853 is stiffer, lighter, and at least as strong (rides more responsive, encouraging a racy ride). Being lighter, by being drawn thinner, takes away from its vibration damping, and being stiffer makes it less likely to flex. Spring steel, tool steel and everything in between are all steel, they just have different properties that an engineer must choose from, deciding which is best for their intended application.

There's damping differences in tires too. A Maxxis High Roller 2 in particular has a high amount of damping (hysteresis), leading to its slow rolling nature, compared to say a PaceStar compound Schwalbe in any tread pattern. A HR2 will stay better planted while riding, leading to more confidence over smaller bumps (ride like they aren't even there), like uneven ground in corners, thanks to the damping. There are foam tire inserts being designed to help increase damping, with claims of better performance (and not just to protect the rim).

There's a wide range of bump frequencies and you cannot hope to cover the entire range with 1 solution. You shouldn't expect suspension to handle low energy high frequency bumps and still handle big square edge hits. The flexing of Ti handles smooths out high energy impacts, absorbing it and releasing it by oscillating, allowing your body to damp it over a longer period of time, rather than transferring it all and expecting your limbs to act as suspension (demanding that you have a strong upper body). It's supplementary to what a good suspension should handle, making it somewhat redundant, whereas a vibrocore or thick carbon bar is more complementary, handling frequencies that the suspension can't handle.

Excuse my nerdy STEM word vomit... figure people are better armed with knowledge, to make wiser decisions, rather than left with choices where they don't know better. I'd only offer the knowledge if people are open to it though.
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
Just want to remind that I really hesitate to add in high priced stuff to the tier list. The only thing so far is the Spurcycle bell, and I gave it a really poor score, knowing options like the Crane E-ne exist. Goal is to provide top performance at the fraction of the price. If the item promises like 4x the durability in a high wear area, like perhaps a KMC DLC chain (and the Wolftooth stainless chainring), it's worth a look, but it's too bad these specific examples have to go against the stuff I already listed.

I love shoot-out tests:

Back Issue | Grouptest: Six of the best disc brakes | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine
- Magura MT5 best of test, XT value winner, Saint defines deceleration, Formula light and reliable, Hope E4 silky smooth modulation, Guide RS outclassed by others

The best MTB disc brake you can buy | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine
- Same as above except: Guide Ultimate best in test (over MT5 runner up), Deore M615 exceptional value, Trickstuff Direttisima more powerful than others inc Saint, M8000/M9020 had wandering bite point issue (supposedly solved long ago)

Best mountain bike disc brakes - BikeRadar USA
- Lots of love for SRAM and Shimano with perfect and near perfect scores

The best mountain bike disc brakes - MBR
- More love for Shimano and SRAM with perfect scores, Hope E4 scoring 8/10, XT M8000 still scoring 7/10 (top marks without wandering bite point issue)

The best mountain bike handlebars - MBR

handlebars mountain: Handlebars: Components Reviews - BikeRadar USA

Could cast doubt with prejudice for hours, so looked for some other perspectives on the matter with Thomson Ti (not going to lump it with other Ti bars, like Seven's, treating them as unique individuals):

https://www.singletracks.com/blog/mtb-gear/review-titanium-handlebar-by-thomson/

http://forums.mtbr.com/singlespeed/thomson-ti-vs-thomson-carbon-bar-886683.html

Thomson MTB Titanium handlebar review - BikeRadar USA
 
#32 ·
Thompsons service manual

By the sounds of it, you naysayers have never ridden Ti or else you view would be different.

You can't always trust those reviews as they are more advertisements.
Have you ever read a post where a mtbr writer said that a specific brake set sucks?

Problem with the hope brakes is the high entry cost drives away a lot of buyers. They're not cheap but their longevity and being 100% serviceable is where the value comes in.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
Toot3344556 said:
Thompsons service manual

By the sounds of it, you naysayers have never ridden Ti or else you view would be different.

You can't always trust those reviews as they are more advertisements.
Have you ever read a post where a mtbr writer said that a specific brake set sucks?

Problem with the hope brakes is the high entry cost drives away a lot of buyers. They're not cheap but their longevity and being 100% serviceable is where the value comes in.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Yes. Lots of complaints about the most common brakes that came stock on bikes. SRAM Guides having stuck lever pistons, early production Shimano M8000/M9020 wandering bite point, Magura levers being shaped awkwardly, Avid Elixirs making a lot of noise and feeling mushy and it being a crapshoot to get a set that can be bled well enough to get most the air out, and so on.

Thomson's Ti is apparently heavier than Seven's Ti. Seems like Thomson went thicker/heavier for a stiffer feel that is a bit more damped (as much damping as Ti can offer), and less flexy.

Even if I did add it, these would be rated quite low. Thomson F-, Hope E4 an E $170 per side. I could post SLX brakes (Grade A+) $55 per side, XT C $75 per side, XTR D $125 per side... what really do these offer over the Deore? Ceramic caliper piston, banjo fitting, Tool-less reach, free-stroke adjust, a threaded pad retention pin, servo-wave linkage, sintered pad with fins/heat sink, a polished surface, carbon dimpled lever, a prestigious stamp on the side? Anything else? For 25% more, 50% more, or over double the cost? The value is just not there--you can either bank or use the $250 diff in price, Hope vs Deore, on upgrading something that gives more performance elsewhere on the bike than the Hope would offer.

People seem happy to complain about stuff they didn't pick, such as stuff that came stock, but are a lot more biased towards recent choices they made, as they're reluctant to admit they made a bad decision, and will try to see it positively. Will seem like there's a lot of problems with Shimano and SRAM, with only a handful of complaints about other brands, but that's more because they're just so common in comparison. If there's 35000 riders on SRAM/Shimano, but only 350 riders on Hope, and there's 350 complaints about SRAM/Shimano, that's a lower % of complaints relative to 4 complaints about Hope. Honestly, a 1% complaint rate is pretty solid... there's corps that are happy with defect rates of 5-10%.
 
#34 ·
zooey said:
Yes. Lots of complaints about the most common brakes that came stock on bikes. SRAM Guides having stuck lever pistons, early production Shimano M8000/M9020 wandering bite point, Magura levers being shaped awkwardly, Avid Elixirs making a lot of noise and feeling mushy and it being a crapshoot to get a set that can be bled well enough to get most the air out, and so on.

Thomson's Ti is apparently heavier than Seven's Ti. Seems like Thomson went thicker/heavier for a stiffer feel that is a bit more damped (as much damping as Ti can offer), and less flexy.

Even if I did add it, these would be rated quite low. Thomson F-, Hope E4 an E $170 per side. I could post SLX brakes (Grade A+) $55 per side, XT C $75 per side, XTR D $125 per side... what really do these offer over the Deore? Ceramic caliper piston, banjo fitting, Tool-less reach, free-stroke adjust, a threaded pad retention pin, servo-wave linkage, sintered pad with fins/heat sink, a polished surface, carbon dimpled lever, a prestigious stamp on the side? Anything else? For 25% more, 50% more, or over double the cost? The value is just not there--you can either bank or use the $250 diff in price, Hope vs Deore, on upgrading something that gives more performance elsewhere on the bike than the Hope would offer.

People seem happy to complain about stuff they didn't pick, such as stuff that came stock, but are a lot more biased towards recent choices they made, as they're reluctant to admit they made a bad decision, and will try to see it positively. Will seem like there's a lot of problems with Shimano and SRAM, with only a handful of complaints about other brands, but that's more because they're just so common in comparison. If there's 35000 riders on SRAM/Shimano, but only 350 riders on Hope, and there's 350 complaints about SRAM/Shimano, that's a lower % of complaints relative to 4 complaints about Hope. Honestly, a 1% complaint rate is pretty solid... there's corps that are happy with defect rates of 5-10%.
Click to expand...
Because you can buy every replacement part for hopes and rebuild them year after year or in the event that something fails.

You can't do that with Shimano's ...

That being said they are similar in performance and features.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#35 ·
zooey said:
Somehow I get the impression that people don't know what a tier list is. They were useful to me when I built up a PC from components, one that competed with $2000 PCs, but only cost me about $650 (for the case and everything in it).

...
Click to expand...
Again, appreciate the effort, but there's a fundamental flaw in this list (aside from future 404s and the eventual staleness of posts).

In the PC world that you refer to, there are purchases that make sense, without argument. A faster SSD for a better price? Done! Quiet PSU with tight parameters for cheap? Sold!

In the MTB world, it's not as straightforward:
-Is the fork you reference in the OP ideal for an XC bike? How does that affect the price-to-performance ratio?
-How about the Liteskin tires in that same post? Great price, but probably a bad idea for most people.

There's no absolute right answer in this sport. Conditions, type of bike, and even experience/demands play a role. Your list should somehow reflect this else it adds to confusion, counter to your intent.
 
Discussion starter · #36 ·
Shimano offers calipers, levers, and hose as replaceable modules. $25 for a caliper by itself, $20 for the lever. They sell the hose + banjo fitting, threaded pad retention pins... what else is there?

SSD is a lame upgrade. There's ways around loading large programs, such as putting the PC to sleep. While it can make a diff in video games, you have to do a lot of waiting for others anyways in multiplayer. Having more than 2 physical cores, not needed for anything but productivity software (2 physical + 2 logical would work fine, unless you do a lot of video encoding). PSU has little performance diff... just need the right connectors for GPU if it needs additional power, and something reliable. $80 Pentium G3258, cheapest mobo with intel H81 chipset $50, $40 450W 80+ PSU, $50 2x4GB RAM, $50 1TB 7200 RPM HD, $175-225 GPU, $30 case, $80 studio monitor for speakers (ex. Mackie CR3), $100 1080p 21" monitor, $35 mouse (Logitech or Corsair should last 5x longer than junky $15 ones), any generic keyboard (doesn't need to be mechanical).

Liteskin tires are light duty. Do you know how many states are relatively flat and mellow? FL is flat, with many mid west states merely having rolling hills at best. The popular youtube channel, Seth Bike Hacks, started out in FL until he recently moved. It's wrong to think the majority is like you and your surroundings. I'm in SoCal and I recognize that much. Loamy, moist forest dirt, where Schwalbe's tire compound works best, also is more forgiving as far as sidewall slashes go. Also, I've been saying to suggest things to fill in the holes, but since no one wants to get involved in a community effort is, I'm probably done with this thread and this lazy stupid community that does way too much judging of others, and not enough self-improving.
 
#37 ·
I think a component tier list would be cool. It's something I could have used as a beginner, but instead had to read tons of content to discover (some of that content was good, but much of it was irrelevant). It's something I would likely still turn to today when I'm seeking an upgrade or replacement. It would be even cooler if it stayed on topic rather than hosting a physics debate on ti vs carbon damping qualities. It would be way cooler if it were given an actual chance, rather spammed with a bunch of pessimism. If it's going to fail and die out, then fine. Let it. But let it do so naturally. Don't piss all over it too.

All that being said, I think it should be a bit more focused; this thread feels like a list of current great value deals, rather than a list of typical value leaders. Also, I would add, it would help to narrow it to components or gear, and exclude bikes, as they deserve many, many threads to themselves.

Here's what I would find helpful, regardless of current deals:

Forks:
Rockshox Pike (often considered a value leader) - easy, reliable, grade A/B performance - typically $800-$1100. As low as $650 on sale/closeout

Dropper posts:
KS - the go-to name brand in the value segment. Mediocre reliability, although better than higher priced posts - typically $150-$250 depending on model and season.

Fox Transfer - probably the best bang for the buck as far as reliability is concerned so far. - typically $320

Stems
Truvative husslefelt - The cheapest 35mm (short) stem from a name brand you can trust. Relatively heavy. - typically $35

Tires
Maxxis (maybe) due to reliable and agreeable performance. Typically at the higher end of durability/longevity. There's fast and more specialized tires out there, but there's hardly anyone out there complaining about their dhf/dhr 2's. Typical street value $50. Rare too find these for less, as they're worth it.

Tire levers
Pedro's. Period.

Multiool
Crank brothers (really?!) M17/M19 included the mandatory chain breaker plus most of other tools you may need need. Unlike alternatives or amazon options, the chain tool doesn't break when you need it. - typically $25-$35

Pedals
Too many good choices.
Composite pedals are a great choice; If you ride Rocky terrain or abuse your pedals, they may not be a good long term value, as they are not as serviceable.
Quality composite: $45
Quality alloy: $100-$150

Brakes:
Shimano slx - solid performance. Easy to get along with. Mineral oil. Buy from a reputable dealer in case you need to make a warranty claim. Similar to deore, but includes finned pads, and tool free reach adjust

Drivetrain:
Shimano deore/slx or SRAM NX/GX (?) it's all pretty decent now. A clutched derailleur is worth the extra money. Shimano XT for 11 speed, as it has the highest cassette capacity (up to 46t).

Cassette (11 speed)
Sunrace 11-46 - great range. Better spacing than shimano.

So there's a start. Maybe I should just start my own thread and everyone can hop over there to whine and moan when this one dies, and my contribution is wasted 😅.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this information, in this context would have been seriously helpful to me when I started..
 
#38 ·
Saddles:
WTB (WTB Pure for me, WTB is their best seller) - saddles may be the MOST personal preference component here, but WTB tend to be the least offensive, and generally accepted. You might spend years trying out 20 saddles together find the one that you fits your gooch magically, but for most people a WTB will be good enough - $35 - $150 depending on weight.
 
Discussion starter · #39 ·
Only thing I'd question on your list is to note what someone would need a 35mm stem for. I'd advise against putting a 35mm length stem on a bike that doesn't have new school geo. For instance, if the medium size doesn't have 445mm of reach, and instead has 430mm or less, I think you're better off with whatever came stock (~50mm, or 60 for 420, 70 for 410). For every 20mm increase in hbar width over stock, you can reduce stem length by 10mm and maintain the same weight distro over front. They shouldn't be a fit item, but a performance issue to make sure just the right amount of weight is on the front. Old steep HA bikes might have too much weight on the front and can benefit.

Tire Lever:
- Crank Bros Speedier Lever $6 (only need 1 to do the job)

Misc tool:
- Vice soft jaw insert $14

Pump:
- Topeak Joe Blow Mtn $20

Light:
- Yinding XM L2 900 Neutral White $30 (no battery included)
 
#40 · (Edited)
@Karnage: Well, at least you got the the brakes right (by group consensus). The rest is a bunch more opinion again. I'll make my own list that's right for me, but may or may not be for others to illustrate how it's easy to make one, but one size does not fit all.

  • Fork - Fox
  • Dropper - Giant, KS, Easton, Race Face, 9point8, or Fox Transfer (they're all equally OK with strengths and weaknesses, but I still don't run one)
  • Seatpost - Easton, Pro (Shimano) or Race Face if I have to pick a brand, but really whatev as long as it's a reliable brand.
  • Stem - see seatpost directly above.
  • Tires - Schwalbe with SnakeSkin/DD since that's what I run currently, but whatever works. I actually rather dislike Maxxis' stuff (mainly due to bad experience with running Ardents). Highly subjective.
  • Tire levers - got some generic Park clones from Price Point for $0.50. Anything, really.
  • Multitool - M19 since the thread about the M17 not pushing the pin all the way out.
  • Pedals - Too many, but over $75 is wasting money IMO. Right now I'm using Nukeproof Electron, Xpedo Spry and Shimano Saint and they all work well for me (with Five Tens, of course).
  • Brakes - Shimano Deore for budget. SLX/XT/XTR/Saint, Hope, Formula, Avid Code if you have $$$.
  • Drivetrain - XT shifters, SLX everything else. Still haven't gotten 'round to 11spd.
  • Cassette - isn't that part of the drivetrain? :lol: SLX
  • Saddle - SDG, WTB, Crank Bros, Selle Italia, Fizik, Specialized have all worked for me (just find the right shape and all's good). Brands...meh, less important than making sure it's good quality. Oh, and a decent pair of riding shorts with a chamois.
  • Helmet - wear one!
 
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