Serious question here. We have aluminum, carbon, and ti, but show me a steel flat/low-rise handlebar. We still extoll the virtues of steel for frames, why not use it for handlebars?
Why no steel handlebars?
golden boy
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Serious question here. We have aluminum, carbon, and ti, but show me a steel flat/low-rise handlebar. We still extoll the virtues of steel for frames, why not use it for handlebars?
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Because handlebars are just a single tube, you'd likely end up with a choice between excessively flexy vs excessively heavy. And aluminum bars are already cheap, so cost isn't a big advantage.
It's one of those applications where there's just not enough reason to build it and not enough people that want them.
It's one of those applications where there's just not enough reason to build it and not enough people that want them.
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Handlebars are pretty constrained by the other parts they have to work with -- stems, shifters, brake levers, and various accessory mounts. You could probably make a steel bar that was competetive on strength and stiffness, but it'd be a fat tube with eggshell-thin walls. It wouldn't fit with the existing ecosystem of handlebar components, and it wouldn't do too well with impact and other point loads either.
How wide do you want it? Reynolds offers stainless maraging steel, their strongest steel tubing, which they claim they can draw to ridiculously low wall thickness (0.3mm). Can shim a 1" OD tube to match stem clamps, but the ride tune/feel won't really be all that well optimized. Might actually be stiffer and harsher feeling than a 35mm version of a DH bar.
The virtues of steel are grossly oversimplified and overgeneralized (some flat-out wrong, particularly about how aluminum is stiffer). Steel is very dense and has almost no damping, so vibrations will transmit right through. It gives perceived comfort and lively feel through its springiness. Generally, it's not what material you use, it's how you use the material, to get the feel of the "virtues" out of a material. One steel frame can be as harsh and unforgiving as an old Cannondale super oversized aluminum frame, while another can be smooth and comfortable.
For steel to work, the standards that the bicycle industry has settled on, would have to ditched or worked around. Perhaps a smaller diameter steel bar, smaller than 22.2mm with special shims for grips, brakes, shifters, and other accessories? Perhaps with a smaller bar diameter, you can make more comfortable lock on grips that don't need to be 33mm OD to get enough material on top of the inner plastic sleeve. This way it can be made from a higher grade steel to be lighter and take better advantage of some of steel's properties.
There's always the low-carbon steel handlebars found on low end stuff, like dept store bikes and cheap ATVs and dirt bikes. Some of which weigh well over 1 pound.
The virtues of steel are grossly oversimplified and overgeneralized (some flat-out wrong, particularly about how aluminum is stiffer). Steel is very dense and has almost no damping, so vibrations will transmit right through. It gives perceived comfort and lively feel through its springiness. Generally, it's not what material you use, it's how you use the material, to get the feel of the "virtues" out of a material. One steel frame can be as harsh and unforgiving as an old Cannondale super oversized aluminum frame, while another can be smooth and comfortable.
For steel to work, the standards that the bicycle industry has settled on, would have to ditched or worked around. Perhaps a smaller diameter steel bar, smaller than 22.2mm with special shims for grips, brakes, shifters, and other accessories? Perhaps with a smaller bar diameter, you can make more comfortable lock on grips that don't need to be 33mm OD to get enough material on top of the inner plastic sleeve. This way it can be made from a higher grade steel to be lighter and take better advantage of some of steel's properties.
There's always the low-carbon steel handlebars found on low end stuff, like dept store bikes and cheap ATVs and dirt bikes. Some of which weigh well over 1 pound.
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"Competitive". Like, a half-pound or less.
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Surly makes a modern steel flat bar. Leave it to them to make such a thing. I don't see the point, and I ride a steel hardtail with a rigid steel fork.
Handlebar | Parts and Accessories | Surly Bikes
Handlebar | Parts and Accessories | Surly Bikes
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I guess I was hoping for more of an academic discussion on the design considerations of using steel tubing for a handlebar. I did some Google searching today and found an academic paper that was reasonably understandable by the average Joe on this mysterious quality we call vibration damping. My takeaway was that steel appears to offer even less damping than aluminum, and anyone who's swung an aluminum bat knows that ain't much. I'm surmising that in order to make a standard diameter handlebar in steel that can compete with aluminum on comfort (relative) and weight, it would have to have such a thin wall thickness that it would easily dent or bend in a crash.
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An interesting side note from the article was that magnesium was far superior to other metals when it comes to vibration damping. The downside is that it is inferior for structural applications.
Here's a link to the article I'm referring to, if anyone is interested:
https://faculty.engr.utexas.edu/sites/default/files/jmatersci_v28n9y1993p2395.pdf
Here's a link to the article I'm referring to, if anyone is interested:
https://faculty.engr.utexas.edu/sites/default/files/jmatersci_v28n9y1993p2395.pdf
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Eh. I've got a steel framed hardtail, but it wears carbon bars. I'd never dream of steel bars for it. They're not cheaper than other options by enough to justify the weight (on the other hand, a $200 frame vs $700 - 1000 for a similar frame in carbon or Ti is a much bigger difference).
OP was looking for a steel handlebar, choose or not choose. Choices are out there.
Speaking of Surly and steel, they make stainless steel chainrings out of 304 stainless. Surly claims its stainless ring is 35% harder than aluminum. 304 stainless steel has approx 150 Brinell hardness. 7075-T6 also has 150 Brinell hardness, which is what the majority of popular brand name chainrings are made of from. They say the extra hardness results in a longer lasting chainring, but fess that their SS ring will wear out (but can be flipped around for another life).
Duralumin brand 2000 series aluminum has 115-135 Brinell hardness. 6061-T6 has 95 Brinell hardness. Okay, so Surly's claim is true if you compare to certain aluminum alloys, but what respectable brand makes rings out of 6061-T6? This is some of the misleading marketing out there that helps no one but Surly, to help sell their stainless ring.
Their singlespeed cog is made from SCM415 chromoly, which has 235-321 Brinell hardness. 4130 has 217 Brinell hardness. There are hundreds of different grades of steel with significantly different properties. Shouldn't bunch steel up as if they were all similar. The only thing similar is they start off as iron, with a little carbon added. What else is added (to create different alloys) and what other processing happens (ex. heat treatment) shouldn't be treated lightly.
Duralumin brand 2000 series aluminum has 115-135 Brinell hardness. 6061-T6 has 95 Brinell hardness. Okay, so Surly's claim is true if you compare to certain aluminum alloys, but what respectable brand makes rings out of 6061-T6? This is some of the misleading marketing out there that helps no one but Surly, to help sell their stainless ring.
Their singlespeed cog is made from SCM415 chromoly, which has 235-321 Brinell hardness. 4130 has 217 Brinell hardness. There are hundreds of different grades of steel with significantly different properties. Shouldn't bunch steel up as if they were all similar. The only thing similar is they start off as iron, with a little carbon added. What else is added (to create different alloys) and what other processing happens (ex. heat treatment) shouldn't be treated lightly.
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Interesting, zooey. Wolf Tooth makes stainless steel chainrings too. I just felt compelled to check their site to see what alloy they are using. Theirs are made from 416 stainless steel, which they say is harder than 300 series and will last 5-10 times longer than aluminum chainrings. I googled for Brinell hardness and apparently that varies according to tempering temperature. I don't know why, but I'm fascinated by metals.
WolfTooth uses the hardened grade, which is the hardest kind at 293-352 Brinell hardness. Electro-polish sounds interesting... I've seen laser based surface cleaning before, but haven't heard of this until I looked it up. Basically like anodizing in a bath of sulfuric acid, which removes some of the iron on the surface through oxidation, which dissolves, leaving the chromium on the surface, which makes it far more corrosion resistant (sounds like it's about as non-reactive as it gets... think glass). I know people say SRAM cassettes are a work of art, but I am thinking this Wolftooth stainless ring is like jewelry (I'm adding it to my wishlist). I want to see more high grade stainless stuff that's electro-polished now.
Speaking of SRAM cassettes, SRAM uses 4130 Chromoly for their XX1 and XX1 Eagle MTB cassettes, but a harder tool grade steel for road cassettes and a harder 4140 chromoly for their 9 speed X dome MTB cassette.
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Funny...I've also likened some of the finer bike parts to jewelry. Thanks for explaining what electro-polishing is. The Wolftooth chainring is on my wishlist too. I have a hardtail frame just waiting to be built up, and this part will be going on it.
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this is completely wrong. e-module (elasticity/the inverse of stiffness) for all steels and all iron alloys is the same +-5%.
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hardness has almost nothing to do with wear resistance or longevity. even the shittiest steel rings outlive the best alu ones. i can tell you that from experience. alu has like 0.0 wear resistance.
Fixed. My mistake. Re-read it and can see my wording leading to misinformation.
As for shitty steel rings outliving the best alu ones, that's due to work hardening, right?
I'm going to do some verifying on why you say hardness doesn't affect wear, unless you want to elaborate and clarify what you mean. Do you mean in the context of bike chains and sprockets only? If the chain elongates from wear, what else besides work hardening prevents the steel ring from deforming as severely?
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