FSR suspension VS DW/VPP suspension

guvna · Dec 28, 2016

I want to see what people think. Both have evolved over the years and curious on preferences.

1niceride · Dec 28, 2016

I've not owned them all but have ridden them all..I think..maybe not Giants system.

I'm a single pivot person at this moment.

Junersun · Dec 28, 2016

FSR system I owned was a knolly. Since then I've owned a HD3, BAnshee rune (both DW in my eyes) and I've ridden my friends nomad, Capra, and many others.

I still think FSR is just a pure fun. Super active and you can make the system as poppy or bull dozerish as you want.

DW is a very efficient pedaller, FSR not so much...

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Jayem · Dec 28, 2016

guvna said:
I want to see what people think. Both have evolved over the years and curious on preferences.

It's hard to make those types of comparisons. Current DW offerings are fairly consistent comparatively, but there are some different quirks with different manufacturers and models. The "FSR" bikes can be all over the map, there are some common themes, but leverage rate and the actual anti-squat curve can result in drastically different traits. It makes a lot of sense to compare two specific bikes. I will say that while it's possible to flatten out the FSR anti-squat curve, very few bikes do this.

Some of the FSR bikes have been modified for the 1x drivetrains, with higher starting points for the anti-squat curve. These give you around 100% at the sag point, but it decreases past that point usually, unless it's one of those designs with the flatter AS curve (very few though).

Some of the FSR bikes have not and IMO they are way behind the powercurve, like Ellsworth. Their kinematics would be ok for a FSR IF they were using a granny gear, but since they don't, it will pedal like a wet mattress uphill due to their choice of pivot placement.

There are lots more variables, more than just "FSR absorbs bumps better/worse" or "it gives me more/less traction on climbs". These are not dependent on the on the FSR vs. DW.

Here's an example of an FSR that has a fairly flat AS curve (not typical): R.M. Element 29'' 2017 - Linkage Design
This means that while pedaling and the suspension is working, your pedal inputs will not cause weight shift that causes bob and that "soggy pedaling" feeling uphill. This FSR would be much more like the modern/current DW offerings.

Here is a more typical/traditional FSR, with the sloping anti-squat curve. This one means that if your suspension happens to be at around the right sag point, it will theoretically pedal like the design above, except that if it's sagging more, or the suspension is activating, if there's more rearward bias, bumps, etc, it'll pedal worse, because at those other travel points, it has a lot less than 100% anti-squat.
Specialized Camber 2016 - Linkage Design

So you can see, even between FSR bikes you can have radically different traits.

To further muddy the waters, FSRs were originally a compromise between front ring sizes, so now with most manufacturers going to one front ring, it frees them up to design some pretty good traits into single-pivot bikes, bikes that are not FSRs or DW-link designs.

Junersun · Dec 28, 2016

Jayem said:
It's hard to make those types of comparisons. Current DW offerings are fairly consistent comparatively, but there are some different quirks with different manufacturers and models. The "FSR" bikes can be all over the map, there are some common themes, but leverage rate and the actual anti-squat curve can result in drastically different traits. It makes a lot of sense to compare two specific bikes. I will say that while it's possible to flatten out the FSR anti-squat curve, very few bikes do this.

Some of the FSR bikes have been modified for the 1x drivetrains, with higher starting points for the anti-squat curve. These give you around 100% at the sag point, but it decreases past that point usually, unless it's one of those designs with the flatter AS curve (very few though).

Some of the FSR bikes have not and IMO they are way behind the powercurve, like Ellsworth. Their kinematics would be ok for a FSR IF they were using a granny gear, but since they don't, it will pedal like a wet mattress uphill due to their choice of pivot placement.

There are lots more variables, more than just "FSR absorbs bumps better/worse" or "it gives me more/less traction on climbs". These are not dependent on the on the FSR vs. DW.

Well said

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Jayem · Dec 28, 2016

And just the clarify, the Rocky Mountain has a wonky leverage ratio for a bike intended to use an air shock, so don't go thinking that's a perfect bike just because it has decent pedaling characteristics. It goes progressive during the entire travel, which is not what you want with an air shock, you want it to regress slightly, because air shocks are naturally progressive at the end of their stroke. The rate would be well optimized for a coil shock, but that's far from the intended use of the bike...

guvna · Jan 3, 2017

Thanks guys, good info. I never liked VPP the few times I tried it [to much pedal feedback]
But i am sure it is better now. I guess what i'm really looking for is straight up comparison between current Santa cruz app [Bronson] vs FSR Spesh Stumpy.

FSR suspension VS DW/VPP suspension

guvna

1niceride

Junersun

Jayem

Junersun

Jayem

guvna

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