A rock garden being a rough, rocky trail, how well do you guys think a decent hardtail can do on a rough Rock Garden trail? Would you recommend it?
Hardtails on Rock Gardens?
LMR Sahara
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That is standard trail fare in NJ. I have to hump my 26 inch hardtail over lots of that every ride.
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I hate fall riding for that reason. Heavily leaf covered trails are nasty. They cover the rocks so you can't see then as well, and leaves are slick!
)Night leafy riding when it's damp out is akin to suicide...
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Living in western PA I have to seek that stuff out. When I lived in the middle of the state everything was chunky.
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I have only ever ridden a fully rigid bike, so my body is my suspension. I ride in Ohio, Michigan and PA mostly when I do, so it can become rooty and rocky, (not like the East Coast and NE...that is ALL a big Rock Garden....) but having grown up on BMX and full rigid's when learning MTB back in the 90's, I can't do any kind of squish. As most have said, you develop the fundamental skills of control, and then adapt. I could get a hardtail and adapt, but I don't feel like I need to...or want to.
I currently use a Surly Krampus, and love every aspect of it. Big wheels for rolling power, sorta fat tires for soft ground and lower tire pressure, BMX- type geometry (mostly in the rear end)for climbing and hucking...but my skills to navigate techy stuff are still what keeps me upright...for the most part...
jeffw-13:
"It's more about the rider than the bike. Work on your skills & worry less about your gear."
This pretty much sums it up for me. I feel like I should be able to ride the trails on my MTB and my BMX...and I still try to for the most part...and, I also ride my MTB att he skatepark sometimes just to hone and compare skill sets. that always gets great reactions from the skaters especially. The BMX guys know me and expect wierdness from me....
I currently use a Surly Krampus, and love every aspect of it. Big wheels for rolling power, sorta fat tires for soft ground and lower tire pressure, BMX- type geometry (mostly in the rear end)for climbing and hucking...but my skills to navigate techy stuff are still what keeps me upright...for the most part...
jeffw-13:
"It's more about the rider than the bike. Work on your skills & worry less about your gear."
This pretty much sums it up for me. I feel like I should be able to ride the trails on my MTB and my BMX...and I still try to for the most part...and, I also ride my MTB att he skatepark sometimes just to hone and compare skill sets. that always gets great reactions from the skaters especially. The BMX guys know me and expect wierdness from me....
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Some of the pics above are not rock gardens, just trails.
It's pretty rocky where I live and I only ride a ht. Most things are rideable, you just have to keep your body loose, pick a good line and control your speed. Yoy may not succeed at first, but you'll figure ut out eventually. Wear knee protection if you have any. Don't brake too much - too slow can be as bad as too fast.
There are people that ride rock gardens I wouldn't dare to, regardless of availiable suspension.
It's pretty rocky where I live and I only ride a ht. Most things are rideable, you just have to keep your body loose, pick a good line and control your speed. Yoy may not succeed at first, but you'll figure ut out eventually. Wear knee protection if you have any. Don't brake too much - too slow can be as bad as too fast.
There are people that ride rock gardens I wouldn't dare to, regardless of availiable suspension.
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We did a trip to Ellicottville, NY in late Fall. It is known for lots of rocks. There were also lots of leaves. Then it snowed the night we arrived. The next day was difficult (we all took at least one good hard fall each - I almost broke my thumb), but rewarding. Going with the right people made it fun. We did NOT night ride there.
-F
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Just curious, what PSI are you going up to for rock gardens?
Whether I go up or down in PSI for a rock garden depends on how how fast I plan on going thru it, but either way, I keep the PSI as low as possible to limit tire deflection and increase traction. The rear on a hard tail will get out of control quickly in a rock garden with too much tire pressure. (the front will too, but the sus fork will help keep it under control).
I think a hard tail is fine, but with the right equipment. Wide rims and big tires will allow for lower tire pressure and help keep the rear end under better control. Also, a steel, Ti or carbon frame and not aluminum.
I agree with what you said about the rigid. Rigid is by far the most fun, however, not always up to the task. I would add for the different types of bikes in rock gardens that for me, it depends on what type of ride I am doing. If it is just a 1 or 2 hour ride with a few medium rock gardens then I prefer the rigid. If it is a 1 to 2 hour ride with a lot of chunk throughout and steep downhill sections, then then time to move up to the hard tail. If it is a 2 to 4 hour ride with lots of gnar and big rock gardens, then I will go with my full squish. I do run pretty big tires on most my bikes though.
Here are some small and old 1.95" wide gum walls. They actually do ok with the i21 rim.
But some high volume 2.4" tires are much better and allow for a much lower PSI.
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Just curious, what is your definition of a rock garden?
Your right on about picking a good line, getting the speed right and most importantly, keeping loose. I would also add, especially for hardtails and rigid, being able to unweight either or both wheels quickly and decisively. Also, staying on top of the rocks is key.
I've ridden stuff similar to the photos on a Costco hardtail 29er, but not for extended distances. It's doable, just not comfortable and I really had to slow down to get through it without getting dizzy. My back, neck and butt were sore afterwards. It also depends on your sense of caution or adventure. I am more of the former so I take it easy. The same trails are a ton of fun with full suspension.
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Will a hardtail do well? I think that the great many posts here showing that it certainly can be done means that a hardtail can definitely do well in rocks.
Would I recommend it? Maybe, or maybe not. This part of the question is rather subjective and to give a straight answer would depend on the type of rider that you are. Do you like the challenge of slowly picking your way through obstacles like figuring out a puzzle? Then, yes a hard tail would be a great choice.
Do you like wind-in-the-hair speed and the adrenaline rush of going fast? If so, then a full-suspension bike would be a much better choice.
Would I recommend it? Maybe, or maybe not. This part of the question is rather subjective and to give a straight answer would depend on the type of rider that you are. Do you like the challenge of slowly picking your way through obstacles like figuring out a puzzle? Then, yes a hard tail would be a great choice.
Do you like wind-in-the-hair speed and the adrenaline rush of going fast? If so, then a full-suspension bike would be a much better choice.
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Yes.
I just take it in a different style if I'm on hard tail and my wife's on the AM dual suspension bike. Lately I will ride the fattie with knee pads and make clearing a tough section the challenge instead of going ripping fast.
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