All City Macho King VS Niner RLT 9 Steel 2 star

rcb78 · Apr 2, 2016

I've got the first gen RLT before it got thru axles and I agree with what the guys as Niner said originally, it doesn't need them. I can see why they went that way for marketing reasons and compatibility with higher end wheelsets, but the frame/fork is plenty stiff. I'm a big guy making decent power and rotor rub just doesn't happen if they are aligned properly.
I built up mine from a frameset so I got the spec I wanted. My only complaint is that my other bikes don't get ridden as much anymore.

autosmith · Apr 2, 2016

I was recently making the exact same decision. Just as I was ready to order the RLT I was offered a 2013 co-motion Velo raptor frame. It is quick release but even the brand new mavic wheels came standard as quick release still. I do however get some disk brake rub from front and rear on really hard fast corners, but never in a straight line. After much more debate I went with the force hydro brakes. And if I had known how great they'd be it wouldn't have even been a decision. Think 1 finger braking from the hoods. It's amazing. I really like both bikes your deciding between and I was a shimano guy too before this but I would go with sram especially if you want to go 1x. Hope it helps.

RPG · Apr 2, 2016

msedbaue said:
Thanks for the info. If you had to "re-do" would you have purchased the bike with thru axles (this would help with the disc rub). Thats really my major hold up if anything. I like shimano parts but im OK with SRAM. I just want a frame that will be relatively future proof! And I see the thru axles being a benefit to that. Unless they decide to go boost 148 or something. I can get the MK for $2K. Thats a big incentive for me right now.

I don't think I would have changed it. The bike fit is what is most important for me. I came from a nature boy that fit great and the mk had the same geometry. The occasional flex doesn't affect my ride. Just something I notice on hard out of saddle up hill efforts. Both bikes are good choices.

ljsmith · Apr 2, 2016

rcb78 said:
I've got the first gen RLT before it got thru axles and I agree with what the guys as Niner said originally, it doesn't need them. I can see why they went that way for marketing reasons and compatibility with higher end wheelsets, but the frame/fork is plenty stiff. I'm a big guy making decent power and rotor rub just doesn't happen if they are aligned properly.
I built up mine from a frameset so I got the spec I wanted. My only complaint is that my other bikes don't get ridden as much anymore.

In general cyclocross bikes with carbon forks are not going to benefit from thru axles, like you say it is more for marketing purposes. I went from a QR Whisky fork to a thru axle Whisky fork and felt no change whatsoever. QR isn't a deal breaker, especially since there are adapters to put thru axles wheels on QR forks.

eredinger · Apr 7, 2016

I also have the same dilemma as the OP. Right now I can get a smokin deal on the MK so I think I'm going that direction. I think the looks are comparable, Shimano vs sram to me seems a personal preference, and both have quality carbon forks. I have a Macho Man Disc right now so I know the geo will fit.

msedbaue · Apr 9, 2016

eredinger said:
I also have the same dilemma as the OP. Right now I can get a smokin deal on the MK so I think I'm going that direction. I think the looks are comparable, Shimano vs sram to me seems a personal preference, and both have quality carbon forks. I have a Macho Man Disc right now so I know the geo will fit.

What can you get the MK for? Just curious!

big_shmoop · Apr 11, 2016

I wouldn't let thru axles be the deal breaker if you like everything else about the bike, but for people to dismiss their merits and call it just marketing hype is simply not true. There are benefits but like many things in the cycling world they aren't all "game changers".

I think CX/Gravel bikes benefit from them more than say a standard road bike because they have the opportunity to be ridden in conditions that bring their strengths out. Now whether the person riding the bike ever takes it to that extreme is up to them. I guess that could be said about a lot of improvements on bikes.

rcb78 · Apr 11, 2016

Thru axles definitely have their benefit, but when I said marketing I was referring specifically to the RLT. I can't for the life of me find the review article I read before I bought this frame (from 2014), but it was said that Niner tested the frame/fork with and without a thru-axle config and found that the difference in stiffness was virtually immeasurable, the frame and fork are just that stiff, and therefore they decided to do the first run with QRs to keep things simple on the RLT. This was backed up in a conversation at Sea Otter last year with one of the reps working the tent.

big_shmoop · Apr 11, 2016

rcb78 said:
Thru axles definitely have their benefit, but when I said marketing I was referring specifically to the RLT. I can't for the life of me find the review article I read before I bought this frame (from 2014), but it was said that Niner tested the frame/fork with and without a thru-axle config and found that the difference in stiffness was virtually immeasurable, the frame and fork are just that stiff, and therefore they decided to do the first run with QRs to keep things simple on the RLT. This was backed up in a conversation at Sea Otter last year with one of the reps working the tent.

I didn't mean to single you out, but rereading what I wrote I could see how it could be taken that way. My apologies.

I think I know exactly the interview/conversation you're referring to actually. If I remember correctly there was a video as well and woman rep said that about the axles. I think the reason they initially held off on thru axles for the RLT 9 was that was their "gravel" variant versus the BSB which is their CX bike. At that time I believe the BSB did have the thru axle (not 100% on that) because the RLT was meant for the adventure segment. It might have also been before they released he steel version of the bike. Perhaps the Aluminum version doesn't benefit as greatly as the steel? Again, I'm not sure.

I think what happened was the RLT had a little bit broader appeal then they originally planned. People viewed as both a CX and gravel bike so they added it for those buyers.

rcb78 · Apr 11, 2016

No offense taken, I just wanted to clarify that there's more to thru axles than 'it makes it stiffer'. On my Canfield N9, I was able to do a TA install thanks to the gen 1 frame using the same modular dropouts that Kona uses. There it made a difference, and I'm sure in other frames where the mfg does more for weight savings, the stiffness that is lost can be regained with a TA.
That said, the RLT 9 is NOT light. My 56cm frame was 1700gr and the fork with cut steerer was 580gr, I'm inclined to believe that has something to do with how rigid the frame is, but don't mistake the words 'rigid' or 'stiff' to mean uncomfortable. The bike really does ride very nicely and has seen hundreds of torn up, off road miles having yet to leave me feeling beat up.

msedbaue · Apr 22, 2016

Well in the event anyone is curious. I went with the Macho King and have zero regrets. That SRAM rival stuff is awesome! Beautiful bike, the cowbell 2 is super comfy. Im pumped to put some miles on it!

big_shmoop · Apr 22, 2016

Gratz on the new ride, enjoy the hell out of it.

msedbaue · Apr 23, 2016

Pretty darn fun on the singletrack!

garcia · Jan 25, 2018

Sorry to revive, but will this fit anything bigger than the 38c the All City site says?

*OneSpeed* · Jan 25, 2018

garcia said:
Sorry to revive, but will this fit anything bigger than the 38c the All City site says?

My Nature Boy Disc has the same claimed tire clearance. I have a 37c tire in there (on a 24mm IW rim) with a little room to spare. I remember some people saying they fit a WTB Nano 40c tire in the back. That tire doesn't really have big side knobs though.

As you push the limits of clearance I imagine the sturdiness of the wheel would start to become a factor.

All City Macho King VS Niner RLT 9 Steel 2 star

rcb78

autosmith

RPG

ljsmith

eredinger

msedbaue

big_shmoop

rcb78

big_shmoop

rcb78

msedbaue

big_shmoop

msedbaue

garcia

OneSpeed

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