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4 inch vs. 5 inch tires

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#42 ·
coyotegulch said:
Kind of off topic, but...

Do any of you have an extra set of wheels set up for different snow conditions? Maybe a set of 4" on a 80mm rim and a set of 5" on a 100mm rim?

I think about it every winter and have been pondering it again.
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Great idea. However I would probably go 4" on 65s and another set of 100mm rims with either 4" or 5" tires. The 80 and the 100s are probably too similar. The 4 on 65s would be an awesome summer tire with the 5" on 100 for winter and mud.

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#43 ·
Stroganof said:
Options are good, but unless you plan to ride in soft snow the 4" are lighter, faster, and more fun.

Around Anchorage the trails get packed in quickly and zipping around on 4" tires is the best and there is just no need/benefit for bigger tires for 90% of the winter. Besides that, skiing or snow shoeing in fresh/soft/loose are a lot more enjoyable than fighting it on a bike, IMO. That said, if remote rides on marginally packed trails are your thing then the 5" will let you ride in many places the small tires won't.
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Idk, there's a pretty big difference between 4" tires on 65-80mm rims and 4.6+ on 90mm or bigger rim, the 4.6+ look massive compared to the 4" described before. I can lower pressure quite a bit for those nasty low-snow conditions where there are big roots everywhere. Soft conditions in the last few weeks were great with the big tires and I haven't noticed huge difference racing, which I did more and more last season (plus this one).

I agree though that the Bud and Lou are a powder/soft snow tire, not much use outside of that and not a good all-conditions winter tire IMO.

My bike is a 170 rear, but clears 4.7 on 90mm rims just fine.

To be sure, if I could afford it, I'd have another wheelset with 4" tires for racing, but I don't feel like it's worth it to switch on one wheelset, 5" gives more flexibility and possibilities with few, if any, negatives.
 
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#44 ·
Jseis said:
You are essientialy correct but I've accounted for as much practical "detail" as possible. We were both at the 4-5 psi range. I noticed the difference and having put 1200 beach miles on my fat in the last 11 months, I've developed a decent feel for beach terrain on my bike (Minn 3.0). I didn't expect to notice any difference. I attribute the difference to the wider/shaved BFL's and the shaving possibly 60% of that. Possibly one other difference. His bike (Salsa Black Borow) has noticeable more weight back which means he's not plowing the forward tire as much as I am. Still, his bike was slightly easier to peddle in the sand/pea-gravel. Not sure what easier equates to in watts but I'd guess as least 15 or more. I plan two changes:Shaved tires and 100mm rims. That was his suggestion and he's got 5 years fat experience. Since I'm 100% beach, I'm all in for more flotation. 4.6-4.8 tires my limit though
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Unless you've ridden tens of thousands of miles with a power meter and are supremely in tune with effort, please refrain from making these guesses. It's really, really hard to make comparison like that, especially on different bikes/frames.

I'm not doubting you noticed a difference, but unless you have real data stick with just saying it was easier.
 
#45 ·
Unless you've had to drop your 5" tires to 4 psi or below, then you probably don't need 5" tires.

On freshy powder rides im running about 3psi in my rear tire, wich is a ground controll. Front bud is like 6psi.

The bike handles way better and is more tossable with 4" tires, I'm running FBNs in the summer.

I think the ground controls are a great all rounder. I like it for a rear because it's less draggy than a lou and still floats great. Bud has a ton of steering and rolls well, but i definitely like to take them off when im riding dirt.

Options are alway great, though. I'd like to get a 170mm spaced frame as my next bike as the wider q hurts my knees and hips, but not enough to keep me off the bike.
 
#46 ·
One more difference:
Besides max tire width, the Mukluk and Blackborow also differ in the standover height. The Blackborow has the top tube dropped a bit lower.

If you are buying a complete bike, then you also have to factor in different builds, especially in regards to fork.

The choice also comes down to how much you want to buy. If you want to ride year round, most people like narrower rims better for that, if for no other reason than weight.
So, if you plan to buy just the bike, go with the Mukluk since it comes with 80mm rims. On the other hand, if you plan to buy a summer wheelset anyway (perhaps 29plus sized or 65mm), the Clownshoes on the Blackborow might be more appealing.

I would say that I DO notice a bigger tire, even in somewhat packed trails. Especially when you go slightly off the side. There are also always days when it hasn't been packed down, and then there is overflow ice on creeks.
Creek riding is some of the best winter riding around, here in northern MN, but it often forms thin crusts over the top. Having a wider tire in the front really helps keep the front up on top. I have tried that on back to back rides with two different wheels.
 
#47 ·
One thing no one seems to have mentioned here is rotating weight.

Some 4.5 - 5.0" tires (and wheelsets) can be just as light as running 4" if you use a higher quality tire/light tube/tubeless/quality wheelset. For example I am running 2.3-3.0" tubes in my Fatboy which alone saved me a pound of rotating weight. Some folks have taken the time and energy to go tubeless which can save you even more precious grams.

There are a lot of variables to consider here more than just the width of the tire and it can quickly become complex. Any tire larger than 4.5" with proper air pressure is super grippy, can provide great float on snow, but a may cost you some rolling efficiency. I'd also agree that for riding some fast & dry singletrack a 4.0" is superior for speed. Experimentation and consideration of what kind of terrain you're riding on is important.
 
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#48 ·
Deeper snow traction is unbelievable on 4.7's. When standing and climbing I find it a challenge to keep the front on the ground. My 4.0 tires slip a lot more in snow.
As said here several times, 4.0's are a lot better in the dry.
 
#50 ·
I haven't ridden the 5" tire, but I've seen several people pass me on their Bud/Lou having less traction issues in sloppy conditions than I have on my 4" Nates. So there has to be something to be said for the 5" tires.B

That being said, I've had my Mukluk for 4-5 years already, and want to squeeze some 4.5" tires into it since my Nates are getting worn out (on my Mulefut 80s). What's the best recommendation for loose snow conditions that would fit a first year Mukluk (no swinging dropouts)? Seem like the available 4.5 tires are the Kenda Juggernaut, the Vee Snowshoe, and the 45NRTH Dillinger 5 (Labeled as 4.8, but looks to be the same size as the Juggernaut, and the Dillinger 4 is really a 26+ tire it's so small). I don't really know the sizing on the Specialized GC 4.6, Bonty Barbergazi 4.7, or Maxxis Colossus 4.8.
 
#51 ·
29ger said:
....Seem like the available 4.5 tires are the Kenda Juggernaut, the Vee Snowshoe, and the 45NRTH Dillinger 5 (Labeled as 4.8, but looks to be the same size as the Juggernaut, and the Dillinger 4 is really a 26+ tire it's so small)...
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Of those three choices, I would highly recommend the D-5. It's good in loose slow conditions (not as much as the Bud/Lou, but with the right pressure, not far off), and surprisingly minimal rolling resistance on firmer surfaces for a tire of that size (much better than Bud/Lou). And it's easily studdable, if you choose to at some point down the road.
 
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#53 ·
Jayem said:
I agree though that the Bud and Lou are a powder/soft snow tire, not much use outside of that and not a good all-conditions winter tire IMO.
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I see lots of guys riding them all year, including Lou/Lou and Bud/Bud combos, so not sure that's a fair assessment of the tires. On the other hand can't argue that Lou/Lou is going to be slower than other options. Personally I'd opt for something a bit lighter.
 
#54 ·
I'll have to take some more accurate measurements on my bike & current set up. I have about 3/8" clearance per side with the Nate. The studability of the D-5s is a plus, but appearance wise, the tread doesn't appear that aggressive (compared to the GC or Snowshoe). But performance before appearance in my book.
 
#55 ·
Gambit21 said:
I see lots of guys riding them all year, including Lou/Lou and Bud/Bud combos, so not sure that's a fair assessment of the tires. On the other hand can't argue that Lou/Lou is going to be slower than other options. Personally I'd opt for something a bit lighter.
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I don't even see lots of people riding fatbikes in the summer. Sure, a few, and I'm in fatbike-mecca, but not "lots" compared to regular bikes...
 
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#57 ·
Smithhammer said:
It's always good to have options, particularly if you plan on riding in looser, deeper snow - and 5" tires do make a difference in those conditions. You can always run 4" tires on a bike that is designed for 5" but you can't do the opposite. Of course a 5" tire isn't going to be as fun when you're using it for conditions that it's not intended for - the Bud/Lou combo was never designed as a "summer hardpack" tire.

Personally, I've settled on a 4.5" tire as an ideal 'all-arounder,' but really no such tire exists without compromise. It all depends on whether those compromises are something you're willing to live with. And if not? Then have a different set of tires for winter and summer, which is arguably the best solution.
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This^^Why not buy a bike that can fit 5" fat tires for snow and loose conditions, and in summer swap in a set of fast rolling 4 inchers? That way you'll never regret and wonder "what if?"
 
#58 ·
For four years I rode a 2011 Mukluk with 4 inch tires on 80mm rims. Experimented with Larry's, Big Fat Larry's, Dillinger 4's and Nate's. All great tires but never "just right". Then one day I put a Bud on the front and fell in love.

Now I ride a 2015 Blackborow 1 with dual studded Bud's on 100mm rims fall/winter/spring and Chupacabra's on 50mm rims spring/summer/fall. With two sets of wheels I can choose the tire/pressure best for the trail conditions at hand and occasionally ride both the same day!
 
#60 ·
weisswurst said:
Thanks everyone for the replies. I decided to go with the Blackborow. The larger tires will be nice in the snow. I'll look at purchasing a 29+ wheelset for other conditions.
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Nice choice. I was about to chime in and suggest that. Here's what I've found:
I'm tall and heavy. I have 100mm rims and 4.8 tires on my bike and I ride it year round like that. I did finally build some 29+ wheels for it.
I was going to build some smaller fat wheels but the 4" tires on 65mm rims are SMALL. You lose height as well as width. Too small for me.
The other promising rim-tire combo for me looks to be 27.5x4. Just about as tall as Bud and Lou.
 
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