I'm trying to set a goal FTP to be competitive in Cat 1 Pro/Elite in 2016. What ballpark w/kg FTP do you think I would need to be competitive at the regional level? I race the DINO MTB Series in Indiana and the Elite wave (Masters 35+) in the OVCX Series for CX.
w/kg at FTP for Pro/Elite
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craigebaker
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I'm trying to set a goal FTP to be competitive in Cat 1 Pro/Elite in 2016. What ballpark w/kg FTP do you think I would need to be competitive at the regional level? I race the DINO MTB Series in Indiana and the Elite wave (Masters 35+) in the OVCX Series for CX.
Huge range for w/kg in Elite.
-back of pack 4.0-4.4.
-mid-pack 4.4-4.8
-top local 4.8-5.1
-top 10 state/provinicial 5.1-5.4
-top 10 nationally 5.4-5.7
-top 20 WC 5.7-6.0
-top 3 WC 6.0+
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Thank you LMN! You're an absolutely invaluable member of this community. I only train with virtual power now, so my first step is to either get power or test somewhere. My virtual power tests have put me at back of pack according to your data above, so they (my test figures) might actually be accurate. Now to figure out how the hell to get my power up that far......did I mention I turn 43 in January?
Subtract about 0.6 off all those values to get a range for Pro Women.I'm guessing these are men's numbers... any idea on the similar range for pro women? Just wondering what I need to work myself up to
LMN those numbers seem a little higher than my experience in Mountain racing. That ranging from back of Cat1 to upper in the state. Or I maybe I make more power then I thought. I have sold my power meter a few years back.
Where did you find/come up with those numbers?
They seem to be closer to what I experience in road racing from this table.
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Where did you find/come up with those numbers?
They seem to be closer to what I experience in road racing from this table.
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I'm guessing they come from his wife, who is a two time World Champion plus two time World Cup champ, as well as the other pro MTB racers he coaches...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharine_Pendrel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharine_Pendrel
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I don't know how you can directly compare the road power profiles to MTB. There isn't a direct correlation between categories. However, his numbers correlate the back of pack Elite MTB to a fast Cat2 / Slower Cat1 on the road. This seems like a reasonable correlation to me.
The numbers come from a fair bit of experience coaching riders of all levels. I have solid data points for men women of nearly all levels (the exception being a top 3 world cup male racer). Enough information that I am pretty confident in the numbers.
When comparing to road at the elite level on average, higher watts/kg are observed.
Lets face it XC racing is primarily about climbs. If you don't have the ability to go up-hill fast your success is going to be limited. Where as road racing is way more multidimensional, the ability to climb well is not the sole determinant of success. Actually in most cases a good climber struggles to place well in local road races.
I won every race in masters category this year (40+), W/kg about 5.2. Was a good amateur in France 20 years ago winning a couple of the bigger races at probably similar power but 6kg lighter.
Competitive in elite category as in top 5-10 maybe but guys like Dan McConnell would leave me for dead when they race.
The good pros are unbelievably strong, you really can't imagine how hard they go.
Competitive in elite category as in top 5-10 maybe but guys like Dan McConnell would leave me for dead when they race.
The good pros are unbelievably strong, you really can't imagine how hard they go.
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Guys, could you please explain me the Cat5-Cat1 rankings?
In my country there are only Pro categories (UCI Elite, National Elite, Junior, Under, Masters) and amateurs. And for the amateurs they are divided only into Elite and Amateur itself (also there are some age grades, but it does not matter).
Does this all Cat5-Cat1 categories are related to amateur races? I'm just trying to compare all these categories however.
In my country there are only Pro categories (UCI Elite, National Elite, Junior, Under, Masters) and amateurs. And for the amateurs they are divided only into Elite and Amateur itself (also there are some age grades, but it does not matter).
Does this all Cat5-Cat1 categories are related to amateur races? I'm just trying to compare all these categories however.
Do you just mean they have raw power than no one can match? If so, that's amazing.
FTP is basically power for an hour. Normally about 90-95% of 20 minutes power. I'm not sure what LMN is quoting but, even if it is 20 minute power, it looks high based on my experience.
Canada must have an extremely high level of domestic competition if those numbers are correct.
Canada must have an extremely high level of domestic competition if those numbers are correct.
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^^^
Not an expert on others #'s.
But one rider that i happen to know 20m power & weight in Midwest ,,,his range is right on for "top 10 state"
Not an expert on others #'s.
But one rider that i happen to know 20m power & weight in Midwest ,,,his range is right on for "top 10 state"
Those are FTP numbers (Calculated by 20 minutes test *0.95, the validity of that for FTP is a great topic of discussion).
And yes Canada is a strong mountain bike nation.
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LMNs numbers do look a bit high compared to my personal experience, especially if that is 1hr ftp method. But not by much.
However, not all power meters read the same, sometimes not even close. I've tested on a Computrainer at about 4.4 w/kg, for a 20 minute test (not estimated FTP, 20 min absolute number). About that same time I finished between 50% and 66% back in the field at U.S. Nationals, 2 years in a row at Sun Valley (Pro).
Since I have nstalled a Stages power meter, and I believe it reads 7%-10% low. Below is a power curve (from Strava) for Stage 1 of Moab Rocks 2015, 1 hr power/weight is way down at 3.67 w/kg. I finished 2nd in this stage (it opens with a 1.5hr road climb, so descent power data). I won stage 3 which was punchy, and the power profile was very similar. That race is hard to classify, but I would put it at a "State" level race based on who showed up and the depth of the filed.
I know I'm a more competitive racer now than I was when racing in Sun Valley, despite the significantly lower observed numbers (change in test method and power meter, as well as race experience and improved bike handling skills.)
My point is that it's really dependent on how you're measuring power. It is probably better to shoot for a % improvement over a baseline number than set an absolute number based on data that may not align to you how you measure power. I reset my baseline everytime I start with a different power meter. If I didn't have my own power data as a baseline, but instead was trying to align my race goals with LMNs numbers, on my power meter, I would lose all hope for race success...
Hopefully this is a useful post and doesn't come across as "Hey, look what I did!"
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However, not all power meters read the same, sometimes not even close. I've tested on a Computrainer at about 4.4 w/kg, for a 20 minute test (not estimated FTP, 20 min absolute number). About that same time I finished between 50% and 66% back in the field at U.S. Nationals, 2 years in a row at Sun Valley (Pro).
Since I have nstalled a Stages power meter, and I believe it reads 7%-10% low. Below is a power curve (from Strava) for Stage 1 of Moab Rocks 2015, 1 hr power/weight is way down at 3.67 w/kg. I finished 2nd in this stage (it opens with a 1.5hr road climb, so descent power data). I won stage 3 which was punchy, and the power profile was very similar. That race is hard to classify, but I would put it at a "State" level race based on who showed up and the depth of the filed.
I know I'm a more competitive racer now than I was when racing in Sun Valley, despite the significantly lower observed numbers (change in test method and power meter, as well as race experience and improved bike handling skills.)
My point is that it's really dependent on how you're measuring power. It is probably better to shoot for a % improvement over a baseline number than set an absolute number based on data that may not align to you how you measure power. I reset my baseline everytime I start with a different power meter. If I didn't have my own power data as a baseline, but instead was trying to align my race goals with LMNs numbers, on my power meter, I would lose all hope for race success...
Hopefully this is a useful post and doesn't come across as "Hey, look what I did!"
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