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Really nice today, no mud. A few spots with leaf buildup but mostly the trails were clean.

Rode two new sections recently built. Starting to lean more towards the side of the fence that thinks FOW is going a little nuts with the "smoothing". Feel like it's going to be another white clay in two years.
 
Got my only chance while in town to ride today, took out the tiny ancient bike. Did an out and back on the Mt Airy/Chestnut Hill side.

Trail conditions are good, or at least what I expect: everything is dry (though of course it's about to rain again). Trail width is always crazy to me, from very narrow to braided eroded mess. Leaves are scary, since you know there's some amount of pointy rocks and holes under them.

New signs... are similar levels of useful/uselessness to the old signs. Still some missing signs at trail junctions (e.g. at Cresheim Creek, there should be a sign pointing upstream to the right for the crossing, and going downstream at the top of the hill to stay left and not end up on the closed gravity sewer bridge over Devil's Pool).

Between Valley Green and Rex I got utterly lost (well, I knew where I was going, but not where the MTB trail is supposed to go). I intended to follow the white/gravity sewer trail, but at some point came to a junction where it said 'no bikes on white trail/downhill goes to orange trail (no usage notes)'. So I went down to the orange trail, where there were new and old no bikes sign. Rode/walked it anyway, since I knew it was close to Rex Ave and the expected route was also signed no bikes.

It was also confusing because the mileage to the Indian was often 0.1 miles less than the mileage to Rex.

Coming back, I tried to follow the signs more carefully. Don't remember riding so high up, very rarely used trail... went even higher following signs to 'Hartwell'. Pretty sure I was last there 30 years ago as a kid, someone I knew lived on St. Andrews Rd and that's the access point. But now... well let's say the trail wasn't at all what I expected, but did lead back to the white trail and eventually the Gazebo.

The OSM map Strava is using labels the MTB trail as 'white trail', but I'm pretty sure it's just a green blazed but otherwise uncolored trail.
 
Hmmm...I rode today. Felt a bit guilty riding a day after a thorough soaking. Fortunately, the Wiss seems to drain well as always. I'm usually fairly conscientious regarding the trails after rain, but I just felt like it. No excuses.

There were lot's of wet spots with deep ruts from mountain bikers- mostly in the usual places. The creek was high and I walked my bike across as per usual.

Am I a dick or a wuss? Who else disregards trail etiquette?

PS: I had a good ride doing the South half loop.
PPS: I hurt.
 
so riding this weekend i noticed they put up two large trail closed signs by the stone bridge (Gorgas Ln I am pretty sure) on the roxborough side. Of course the signs are there but there are no closures so i had to tell two groups of people who where there scratching there heads about the signs that there is nothing actually closed yet...

Danmer or anyone else; any idea when that closure is actually gonna happen and possibly of a timeline to know how long it will be closed? Looks like major work to fix the drainage off the bridge and judging by the stakes it will likely obliterate the trail climbing south from there. Any chance of a temporary route arounds so we don't have to bail down to forbidden and skip a section of trail?

This reroute seems like it will be much harder to "go around" than the other ones they did recently. I think the park/city would do itself a HUGE favor if they could explain closures as opposed to just closing trails and leaving people to wonder why....
 
Danmer or anyone else; any idea when that closure is actually gonna happen and possibly of a timeline to know how long it will be closed? Looks like major work to fix the drainage off the bridge and judging by the stakes it will likely obliterate the trail climbing south from there. Any chance of a temporary route arounds so we don't have to bail down to forbidden and skip a section of trail?

This reroute seems like it will be much harder to "go around" than the other ones they did recently. I think the park/city would do itself a HUGE favor if they could explain closures as opposed to just closing trails and leaving people to wonder why....
I believe that there will be a temporary bypass trail that will go along the Pachella ball fields out to Henry Avenue, go on the sidewalk across the bridge over Gorgas, then on another temporary trail back onto the Yellow Trail. I don't know if the temp trails have been constructed.

The plan is to mark the closed trail as either "under construction" or remove it from Google Maps. The temporary trails will be added to Google Maps. When construction is over and the trail is re-opened, the "under construction" designation will be removed from Google Maps. This way you can just check Google Maps if you are wondering if the trail is open.

There may be plans to have informational signs near the closures but if there aren't I'll suggest it.

I do think FOW and the park could do a better job of communicating about when closures are occurring and when the work is done. I checked the FOW Facebook page and couldn't find anything about the recently completed work.
 
so riding this weekend i noticed they put up two large trail closed signs by the stone bridge (Gorgas Ln I am pretty sure) on the roxborough side. Of course the signs are there but there are no closures so i had to tell two groups of people who where there scratching there heads about the signs that there is nothing actually closed yet...

Danmer or anyone else; any idea when that closure is actually gonna happen and possibly of a timeline to know how long it will be closed? Looks like major work to fix the drainage off the bridge and judging by the stakes it will likely obliterate the trail climbing south from there. Any chance of a temporary route arounds so we don't have to bail down to forbidden and skip a section of trail?

This reroute seems like it will be much harder to "go around" than the other ones they did recently. I think the park/city would do itself a HUGE favor if they could explain closures as opposed to just closing trails and leaving people to wonder why....
I was thinking they would eventually close that section (a great climb) as it has way too many rocks.
 
So i know this is the internet where people say whatever they feel regardless of others BUT...

Guys like Danmer and quite a few others are pouring their sweat into these trails; they are your fellow REAL mountainbikers and therefore love technical trails as much as anyone... They have, however, agreed to work within the system and make trails that are as good as they can be for bikes while still making all the other user groups happy.

Not saying your critiques are not valid... What i am saying that just repeating that we are making the wiss into whitelcay every time an erroded piece of trail gets fixed isn't helping anyone. Sustainable trails are what was committed to in the wiss a long time ago. Everything you are seeing now is just that old plan slowly coming to be. The new stuff may be boring but it is new; give it some time, some ridiculous storms, and combine that with tons of fools riding/walking/horsing when they shouldn't and it too will evolve. I am sure the old eroded trails you love looked completely different and boring when they were first made.

Any of you complainers out there trying actually doing anything to help keep some gnar in the wiss or are you just hopping on your good ol' internet soapboxes cause it is easy????

One place they lost a huge opportunity for gnar in philly IMHO is the new trail by the pumptrack over in belmont.... They coulda made a legit gnarly freeride trail; instead they made??? I dunno go ride that sometime and judge for yourself... To me that shoulda been THE original gnarly trail. The first one which, if made correctly, could have been hugely popular. Then when it got popular they could have promoted expansion of features into other trails. Instead they made a pretty tame flow trail that leads to to a pump track that is never open. Gnarly trails definitely DO need a spot in philly and unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the wiss (it can't be; there is too much traffic on those trails). Seems they had a shot at building proper gnarly freeride style trail over by the pump track but for some reason we got what we got instead...
 
Guys like Danmer and quite a few others are pouring their sweat into these trails; they are your fellow REAL mountainbikers and therefore love technical trails as much as anyone... They have, however, agreed to work within the system and make trails that are as good as they can be for bikes while still making all the other user groups happy.
All well said, and this stands out to me the most. Remember 1996 (?) or so when they had the meetings when people lashed out at mountain biking? The Wissahickon has come a long way and as you said, changed a lot since then thanks in large part to the people working on it now. I can't think of any place we could be luckier to have around here. When I hear people from popular mountain biking destinations talk about mud seasons or relatively short riding seasons I think "man, I'm lucky I have a park I can ride year round." So yes, it's an evolving park and not every change is going to make everyone happy, but that's the compromise we have to make. The changes some angry people wanted at one of those mid-90s meetings would have made us all pretty unhappy (no bikes), but they compromised too. And everyone including bikers made their voices heard, just not on the internet I guess. Maybe AOL and Compuserve. :)
 
So i know this is the internet where people say whatever they feel regardless of others BUT...

Guys like Danmer and quite a few others are pouring their sweat into these trails; they are your fellow REAL mountainbikers and therefore love technical trails as much as anyone... They have, however, agreed to work within the system and make trails that are as good as they can be for bikes while still making all the other user groups happy.

Not saying your critiques are not valid... What i am saying that just repeating that we are making the wiss into whitelcay every time an erroded piece of trail gets fixed isn't helping anyone. Sustainable trails are what was committed to in the wiss a long time ago. Everything you are seeing now is just that old plan slowly coming to be. The new stuff may be boring but it is new; give it some time, some ridiculous storms, and combine that with tons of fools riding/walking/horsing when they shouldn't and it too will evolve. I am sure the old eroded trails you love looked completely different and boring when they were first made.

Any of you complainers out there trying actually doing anything to help keep some gnar in the wiss or are you just hopping on your good ol' internet soapboxes cause it is easy????

One place they lost a huge opportunity for gnar in philly IMHO is the new trail by the pumptrack over in belmont.... They coulda made a legit gnarly freeride trail; instead they made??? I dunno go ride that sometime and judge for yourself... To me that shoulda been THE original gnarly trail. The first one which, if made correctly, could have been hugely popular. Then when it got popular they could have promoted expansion of features into other trails. Instead they made a pretty tame flow trail that leads to to a pump track that is never open. Gnarly trails definitely DO need a spot in philly and unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the wiss (it can't be; there is too much traffic on those trails). Seems they had a shot at building proper gnarly freeride style trail over by the pump track but for some reason we got what we got instead...
Look, I think people appreciate anybody that does trail work, but what I want is for nothing to be done. Nothing. Leave the park as it was for the last 30 years.

What can we do? Nothing really. The train has left the station and I know it. My comment about closing that one trail because it had too many rocks was not meant to be a snarky remark. It was meant literally. The Wiss is changing and the changes will be liked by some and hated by others. But it is what it is.
 
One place they lost a huge opportunity for gnar in philly IMHO is the new trail by the pumptrack over in belmont.... They coulda made a legit gnarly freeride trail; instead they made??? I dunno go ride that sometime and judge for yourself... To me that shoulda been THE original gnarly trail. The first one which, if made correctly, could have been hugely popular. Then when it got popular they could have promoted expansion of features into other trails. Instead they made a pretty tame flow trail that leads to to a pump track that is never open. Gnarly trails definitely DO need a spot in philly and unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the wiss (it can't be; there is too much traffic on those trails). Seems they had a shot at building proper gnarly freeride style trail over by the pump track but for some reason we got what we got instead...
The trail over by the pumptrack was designed to do several things, the first is to connect the communities of Wynnefield and Parkside and the second is to provide a course for the neighborhood children to be introduced to mountain biking. There are plans to extend the trail down to the paved trails near 52nd Street that run along Parkside Avenue and the Avenue of the Republic. This is what the city wanted.

The terrain the trail goes through doesn't lend itself to a gnarly free-ride trail. There are no exposed rocks, no rocks in the soil, and no rock in the nearby woods to build features. Most of the land is completely flat and there is little change in elevation in the areas that aren't flat.

As far as feature are concerned there are a couple of log rides, a few logovers, some subtle jump lines, and when it was built there were a couple of doubles but the park wasn't thrilled with the doubles and they may have been removed.

In time other features may appear but the trail still needs some finish work before winter starts. There will be a work day on the 19th to finish up the work.
 
They have, however, agreed to work within the system and make trails that are as good as they can be for bikes while still making all the other user groups happy.
Honest question and observation here without any snark: Are other user groups requesting buff trails? I hike in wiss almost as much as I bike there, and while hiking I generally try to avoid the smooth fast trails now and stick to the technical hiking only trails. Way more interesting and less likelihood of getting creamed by a bike.

The new stuff may be boring but it is new; give it some time, some ridiculous storms, and combine that with tons of fools riding/walking/horsing when they shouldn't and it too will evolve. I am sure the old eroded trails you love looked completely different and boring when they were first made.
I'm not entirely convinced that the smooth trails will turn rocky and technical over time. The trail above kitchens lane is now quite a few years old and it seems smoother and faster now then it was when it was built.

Any of you complainers out there trying actually doing anything to help keep some gnar in the wiss or are you just hopping on your good ol' internet soapboxes cause it is easy????
Again, honest question without sarcasm: It seems that the new trails that are being built have long been in the works. Is there anything that can really be done to keep the gnar in wiss? The answer given is always "participate in some trail days" but I'm not convinced that is going to do much to change the direction here.

One place they lost a huge opportunity for gnar in philly IMHO is the new trail by the pumptrack over in belmont....
and now I'll reverse course completely. I rode this trail the other day and secretly thought to myself that it was nice to ride a section of Belmont that didn't require you to get over a log every 10 feet :)
 
All well said, and this stands out to me the most. Remember 1996 (?) or so when they had the meetings when people lashed out at mountain biking? The Wissahickon has come a long way and as you said, changed a lot since then thanks in large part to the people working on it now.
One thing that has changed is that the city is comfortable with mountain bikers designing, building and maintaining trails in Fairmount Park. This past Sunday there were three separate work days on trails that were built primarily by mountain bikers.

There was the annual winter cleanup at Belmont, the Philly Pumptrack guys were finishing up the Crossbow Trail, and the FoCT crew was building a boardwalk on the Cresheim Trail. Three events, the same day, all run by members of the mountain biking community.
 
Honest question and observation here without any snark: Are other user groups requesting buff trails? I hike in wiss almost as much as I bike there, and while hiking I generally try to avoid the smooth fast trails now and stick to the technical hiking only trails. Way more interesting and less likelihood of getting creamed by a bike.

I'm not entirely convinced that the smooth trails will turn rocky and technical over time. The trail above kitchens lane is now quite a few years old and it seems smoother and faster now then it was when it was built.
It is not really a question of people wanting buff trails. There are many areas in the Wissahickon where the soil doesn't contain significant quantities of rock. When you build in these areas you end up with a smooth trail. Examples are Houston Meadow, the trails running down from Bluebell Field, and Kitchens Lane.

You can go into the woods and collect rock, but this is land that has been farmed and rocks have been removed to allow plowing and to build structures. Often there is no rock to be found nearby. What rock is found is used to build retaining walls to protect tree roots. There just isn't enough rock available to make rocky trails.

Roots are another feature that makes a trail more challenging but the park won't approve a trail that goes across exposed tree roots. The Wissahickon has an old and sick forest and the park wants to protect what is left. Over time though, roots are exposed and the new buff trail becomes rootier.

Will the trails become rockier? Some will but it may take decades for rocks to rise up through the soil and for soil to wear away to expose the underlying rock. Trails like the Golf Course Climb already are getting rockier since the soils there contain a lot of rock.

What can be done to make the trails more interesting?

1. Show up for work days. Collecting rock in the woods is a lot of work.

2. Make your voice heard. Call the FOW office, show up at FOW's yearly public meeting, build alliances with other sympathetic groups like the trail runners.

3. Don't sanitize the trails. I know its tempting to shortcut when you are tired, don't do it. Stop riding around steps and widening the trails. If there is a rocky switchback don't cut down all the bushes next to the rocks in order to avoid them. If there is a log that you can't clear don't cut it out, notch it or ride around it. Get off and walk.

The mountain biking community has become much more influential in the past 10 years. There are mountain bikers on the FOW board, trails all over the city are being designed and built by mountain bikers, and features like log rides have become accepted. You can help by getting involved in work days, advocacy, and by educating yourself and others.
 
It is not really a question of people wanting buff trails. There are many areas in the Wissahickon where the soil doesn't contain significant quantities of rock. When you build in these areas you end up with a smooth trail. Examples are Houston Meadow, the trails running down from Bluebell Field, and Kitchens Lane.

You can go into the woods and collect rock, but this is land that has been farmed and rocks have been removed to allow plowing and to build structures. Often there is no rock to be found nearby. What rock is found is used to build retaining walls to protect tree roots. There just isn't enough rock available to make rocky trails.

Roots are another feature that makes a trail more challenging but the park won't approve a trail that goes across exposed tree roots. The Wissahickon has an old and sick forest and the park wants to protect what is left. Over time though, roots are exposed and the new buff trail becomes rootier.

Will the trails become rockier? Some will but it may take decades for rocks to rise up through the soil and for soil to wear away to expose the underlying rock. Trails like the Golf Course Climb already are getting rockier since the soils there contain a lot of rock.

What can be done to make the trails more interesting?

1. Show up for work days. Collecting rock in the woods is a lot of work.

2. Make your voice heard. Call the FOW office, show up at the yearly public meeting, build alliances with other sympathetic groups like the trail runners.

3. Don't sanitize the trails. I know its tempting to shortcut when you are tired, don't do it. Stop riding around steps and widening the trails. If there is a rocky switchback don't cut down all the bushes next to the rocks in order to avoid them. If there is a log that you can't clear don't cut it out, notch it or ride around it. Get off and walk.

The mountain biking community has become much more influential in the past 10 years. There are mountain bikers on the FOW board, trails all over the city are being designed and built by mountain bikers, and features like log rides have become accepted. You can help by getting involved in work days, advocacy, and by educating yourself and others.
Thanks for the insight you provided here. I really appreciate the detailed response and the suggested steps to take to get more involved.
 
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