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cross country carbon hard-tail with excellent downhill handling

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badsmells

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi All,
Thought I would tap some brains. I'm looking for a carbon fiber hard-tail that has great downhill handling and stability. I consider myself a very good climber and tend to be a weak descender. What are the exact qualities of the the frame that give it stability going down. Long top tube? Slack head tube? Long chain stays? All of the above. Is Niner better then Pivot, Treck or Yeti for this endeavor? Presently I ride a cannondale and like it, no complaints. I would just love more confidence in my downhill. I'm in the market for a new hard-tail and would love your thoughts. Pleas assist!!! I know downhill performance is improved with seat-post adjustments, tires, and shock, I would like to keep this discussion to fame geometry and which manufacture provides it.

Thanks

Dave
 
#2 ·
For going straight down a mountain youll want a slack head angle, low bb, longer cs's, wide bars and a short stem. If you want a good all around hard tail the is confidence inspiring on the downhills and climbs like a goat back up get something with chainstays around 440, headtube around 70°, some wide bars and good brakes. More than. Anything just get used to getting over the rear wheel and looking to where you're going.
 
#3 ·
For XC you just need to find that middle ground. Where you're not giving up the climbing for the sake of descending. Even if you are a strong climber, you don't want to be sketchy squirrely on a steep climb. Some guys are fine with that...but for me...its a waste of energy.

I think I'd also look at how much climbing vs descending you do. There isn't much sense setting your bike up for going down if you spend 1hr climbing and 20 minutes going back down.

There are 130-140mm front travel HT's, but those are no longer "XC".
 
#5 ·
Difficult question to answer.
As far as the bike is concerned you can augment its ability to descend but much of this might affect its ability to climb easily.
For example;
Wider rims (more and wider tyre options = better descending) Bigger tyres weigh more so take more energy to climb with. Even tyre choice makes a difference.

Longer travel forks (relative) going from 100mm to 120mm makes a significant difference, as does going from a 32mm stanchioned fork to a 34mm or 35mm fork, which tracks better and is stiffer. But more travel can make the effective HTA slacker which makes itself felt climbing if taken to extremes.

Wider bars / short stem - I'd recommend them anyway for control but it'll put less weight on the nose which can stifle the climb somewhat.

Dropper post - weighs more than a standard post but believe me if you've not tried one it'll make a massive difference to every descent. I run them on my HT and despite the weight penalty I'd not be without it.

Short story is you can buy a carbon HT and make it biased towards descending over climbing just by the kit you put on it. Most are reasonably versatile.

OTOH frames like the ARC (Yeti) Les (Pivot) Vertex (Rocky Mountain) strike me as being more than just XC race rigs. There're bound to be more / others at different price points.

Good luck!
 
#6 ·
Yeah I agree with jonjones on most things but I've had a bad experience with a dropper post on an xc rig and replaced it with a race face next carbon post and don't look back at all.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Good answers, thanks. Are there any manufactures you would avoid? How much does a 120mm fork compromise climbing? I understand how a slack head tube angle and short stem would improve downhill stability. How does chain-stay length effect downhill stability, is shorter better?
 
#8 ·
Longer wheelbase will beore stable but shorter chainstays will give you better acceleration and handling. The longer fork will make it harder to keep weight on the front wheel during climbing
 
#9 ·
You should really look at the EPO. It has quite a long thread in the Canfield subforum. It has all the attributes you are looking for, especially at 120mm. Carbon, short rear, long front/reach & wheelbase, steep seat tube angle for climbing etc. etc.
 
#14 ·
612 said:
I got an xfusuion hilo and it didn't work for ****. Would only return halfway so I contacted their customer service and head of repairs and they told me to cycle the thing 100+ times before it's any good
Click to expand...
That's piss poor. Droppers are a little hit and miss. But when they're performing they're wonderful!
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
I like my my Lefty but it is a maintenance nightmare!!! I'll take a look at the Talas and Reba RL for my next bike and keep the long wheelbase tip in mind. The EPO is interesting but looks expensive.
 
#18 ·
The new Kona Kahuna seems to have the geometry you're looking for, but I don't see a carbon version yet. Long front end, 69 deg HA, very low standover. Reasonably short stem and 750mmm bar too. I love Kona's take on XC geometry, should make a fast & fun ride.

If they release a carbon version it may be the one for you.
 
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