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Having issues getting my front wheel up for Manuals and Wheelies

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#22 ·
I think the trick on a mtb is to use to obstacle to your advantage. You don't have to do a full-fledged wheelie to get over stuff, just get the wheel high enough that it will continue to roll over. Even on a big log, that isn't very high if you're moving at the right speed ...
And having some momentum definitely helps.
 
#23 ·
one weird trick is being super fit and have abs and arms of steel



it takes a lot of power and commitment to make a bike do anything other than roll in a straight line

like slapheadmofo said, you ride like you --mean it-- you have to command and strangle the bike and use some force.
 
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#24 ·
Get in a good gear, Push down on the fork to compress, power stroke the pedal at the top of the rotation with your dominate foot. Start there. I usually can get 2-4 pedal stokes before it starts to go bad. But getting the front wheel up 1-2 feet to get over trail stuff is a great skill.
 
#25 ·
You don't need abs and arms of steel to wheelie or manual. Learning to do it properly and it will not take as much effort as most think. I'm not a wheelie or manual expert but I do know that Saul Lumikko described it perfectly. Here is a link to GMBN on youtube in their how-to section that has a huge amount of info for anyone looking to learn things. Maybe this will help some.

GMBN's how to manual video:
 
#26 ·
I assume legs of steel will do for wheelies (don't have).

Funny thing is, my abs actually are quite strong, but what good do they do me here?

I think the link to that video may be bad, but I searched down the GMBN videos on Youtube, and I found their video on manuals. I think I have the movement correct, just don't have that explosive super-duper-ultra-fast-twitch strength. Best I can do is a slow burn.
 
#27 ·
It goes to the video everytime I click it. Well those guys doing the video for gmbn are eert/pro riders so if you still can't get it have someone video you and I'll bet you aren't doing it like he says. Me and my son are still working on it but we haven't worked on it as much as we should. Lol
 
#29 ·
TheHuth said:
...Since I've been pretty much unable to get the front end up at all, I'm wondering if I'm doing something very wrong, or if the bike is just not set up properly.

For the bike size, it feels right to me. But I dont have a frame of reference. (no pun intended). It could be perfect, or to big. No way for me to know.
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I'm 5'-8" and ride 17.5"-18.5" frames. Your frame size/setup is not the problem.

After many years of riding, I've been back to attempting to learn the "manual" technique of lifting the front wheel. Most of the time the wheel only comes up 10-12" and right back down. However, I'm at the point now where I do get the movement correct on occasion and when this happens, the wheel comes up 20-24" with little effort and hangs there for a moment.

Follow the motion shown in the gmbn video and think of it more as thrusting the bike forward with your legs rather than throwing your weight back. As often recommended, dropping the seat out of the way while practicing makes it easier to get the feel for the correct movement.
 
#30 ·
In the tail end of my teens and my early twenties, I trained pretty seriously in ballet. I think of that often when I'm trying to improve a technical skill in mountain biking.

I really think that wheelies and manuals are about balance and timing, not strength. But it's hard not to get into working too hard and being too tense. With pirouettes, tours, and pretty much any other men's move that involves spinning or direction change, identifying the one or two muscles that really motivate the movement, keeping a moderate amount of core engagement, and relaxing make the moves suddenly a lot easier. More explosive, too. :)

I think it's similar with my bike. I mean, these are not strength moves. Really. They're finesse moves. Doing a J-hop onto a park bench is pretty hard to imagine as anything but explosive. But practicing wheelies and manuals and lofting and floating my front end out on the trail, I find I'm all about moving my CG and giving a push with one or both legs. And it's not a strong push, like doing step-ups or leg press. It's a timed, coordinated push, like releve into a little jump.

I know ballet is out of context for a lot of y'all, but you can look it up. ;)

Point being, if you feel like you're not strong enough, you're working too hard and you're probably getting in your own way.
 
#31 ·
I didn't read the entire thread but this is what works for me.

I started with learning to wheelie. Mostly to deal with log crossings and not really for show boating. With a wheelie you don't need to lean back a whole lot. You just need a well timed pedal stroke with a rearward pull from your torso on the handlebars. For me it does "feel" like I pull with my arms but in reality they stay 90% extended (letting your elbow go to full lock will destroy your joints after a while). You really don't need to use much effort, its just good timing from two different actions (a single pedal stroke and rearward weight transfer). Once the front tire is up just keep pedaling to maintain the wheelie. If you're on the balance point and don't need to pedal, its pretty much a manual at that point. The falling left or right thing just takes more practice to sort it out. You aren't really doing anything wrong regarding that.

After I got good at doing a wheelie and learned to ride them for about 10 feet I tried to learn manuals. With the seat fully down I could not for the life of me get the front wheel high enough to reach the balance point. So I combined the techique with a wheelie. A really quick and short pedal stroke is all it takes with your weight fully back and you can loop over backward easily. Again it shouldn't take much effort. Then just LOTS of practice to find the balance point and learn to ride it.

For both techniques keep a finger on the rear brake. I do encourage you to purposely loop the bike out at lower speeds to learn how to land on your feet if you need to bail. Looping out wont let you learn how to ride on the balance point but its a good place to start. After that try to find the balance point and use the rear brake if you feel that you've gone past it.

Also for me a manual is really not an important skill for riding trails. Your weight is to far back to realistically approach an obstacle. The wheelie keeps your weight more centered keeping you in a good position for log crossings and more control for drops.
 
#32 ·
Fajita Dave said:
Also for me a manual is really not an important skill for riding trails. Your weight is to far back to realistically approach an obstacle. The wheelie keeps your weight more centered keeping you in a good position for log crossings and more control for drops.
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Good post otherwise but I disagree with this^ Manuals aren't really necessary, you can get by without them but it's still an important skill IMO. I'm not real good at them but even my little mini ones are super helpful (and fun!) when crossing small dips and water bars at speed.
 
#33 ·
I use manuals constantly to ride off little ledges on descending trails without letting my bike's attitude get too badly screwed up. And for stuff just a little too big to roll...
 
#34 ·
Can you get your butt behind the rear axle? That may be the key to being able to manual. I dont think I will ever be able to manual with my current bike because I cant get my weight behind the axle, my frame is probably too big and too heavy.

There are ledges here I have to walk down because I cant keep the wheel up long enough to go off without nosediving, and theres not enough room to get enough speed to "jump" off.
 
#35 ·
Honestly, I'm not sure if I can get my butt that far back or not. If I can, it's not by much and I highly doubt I can get my CG that far back.

For me, it's a dynamic move. I'd like to find my balance point because I think I'd be able to handle lippier and lower-speed ledges. But if I'm descending with reasonable speed and there's not something to mess it up, I feel pretty comfortable pumping up my front wheel at the right time.

The low-speed stuff is why I'm revisiting it right now. I think a wheelie drop is one of the missing pieces for being able to handle descents that mean it. :)
 
#36 ·
I spent a week trying to learn them earlier this summer, I improved finding my balance point but failed to get it consistently.

One mental breakthrough for me was actually understanding that I was balancing over my rear axel. That helped me understand why it took more effort on my 29er XC bike than my friends 27.5 setup with shorter chain stays.
 
#37 ·
J.B. Weld said:
Good post otherwise but I disagree with this^ Manuals aren't really necessary, you can get by without them but it's still an important skill IMO. I'm not real good at them but even my little mini ones are super helpful (and fun!) when crossing small dips and water bars at speed.
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Yeah I agree with that. I probably should have been more specific. I use mini manuals for lofting the front wheel over mud holes or small drops (like 2ft or less). But a mini manual that just gets the front wheel slightly off the ground never gets your weight behind or even much over the rear axle. A bunny hop does start with a manual! Its just not a full balanced manual over the rear axle. Your weight is more forward which is what lets you make the hop.

For a full manual that can find the balance point your butt is to low and far back to effectivly absorb larger bumps or hop something like a log crossing. You also give up some control for drops. A wheelie puts you in a better position to pedal and raise the front if it starts dropping. The last thing you want to happen on a 3ft+ drop is for the front end to start falling before the rear leaves the ledge.

In a wheelie position your butt should only be slightly behind your seat. This puts you in a stable position to either pedal to raise the front, hop to get the rear tire light (like for log crossings) or still use the rear brake if the front end gets to high. The first two of which are hard to do with your butt low and over the rear axle like in a manual.

This is just what works for me though! At a certain point theres definitely a gray area between whats a wheelie and whats a manual. Pros can do some crazy stuff from a manual. So I'm not saying you can't do much from a front end high manual. Just that wheelies give you more control to correct mistakes. Thats just arguing about details though.
 
#38 ·
my point is

if you want to get good, really good, you'll have to crash a bit practicing it


if you don't have strong arms and abs you are gonna get beat to sh*t and not want to practice anymore. I don' see many fat guys being good at bike handling, is that by chance ?
 
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#39 · (Edited)
TheHuth said:
I'm definitely going to hire an instructor in a couple of weeks. I'd really like someone to show me exactly what to do and what I'm doing wrong My only concern now though is; is a medium size frame too big for me?

Sorry, didnt answer your first question. How much time have I spent on it? I've only picked back up riding for about a month. Used to ride lots when I was young, and rode dirt bikes when I got older. But I've been out of the game for 10+ years. And I dont think I ever had the proper technique previously.
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Try doing it slightly down hill on grass, wear a camelbak, try to loop out. On the grass with your back protected you wont worry about falling backwards as much. Once you can get the balance point in the grass, work on the street.

I like this video

 
#40 ·
idividebyzero said:
Can you get your butt behind the rear axle? That may be the key to being able to manual. I dont think I will ever be able to manual with my current bike because I cant get my weight behind the axle, my frame is probably too big and too heavy.

There are ledges here I have to walk down because I cant keep the wheel up long enough to go off without nosediving, and theres not enough room to get enough speed to "jump" off.
Click to expand...
This isnt the right technique. Instead of lifting your wheel up to do a wheelie crouch down towards the bars and then push your bars forward. You can drop ledges with very little speed. You can also find youtube videos showing how it is done.
 
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