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Taking cornering to the next level

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#21 ·
goodmojo said:
...
1) use platform pedals
...
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While I do not want to open the age old battle of clipless vs platforms, in this specific instance, I would say clipless might be better.

If the OP is talking about riding, and trying to improve cornering, I would assume they already know how to ride and most likely at an experienced/advanced level, but not expert.

One of the problems in most people with cornering, is not fully committing to the turn. They think they have their line, right before hand, they hit the brakes, "chicken out" per say, and take the turn slow. Very powerful cornering relies on holding your line, committing to the turn, and executing.

Platform pedals allow you to bail mid turn or put your foot down dirtbike style.

To be honest, I think putting on long sleeves/pants, kneepads, and elbow pads (assuming you already wear a helmet) and putting on your clipless and going for it. Might wash out and crash and burn a couple of times, but your form and your overall ability will benefit from it.

Now me personally, I still ride platforms, but that is because I primarily ride a lot of technical single track that doesn't allow me to carry much speed into turns. A lot of climbing, rock gardens, etc. If I ever switched to places that benefit from clipless, I will go that route.
 
#22 ·
LaXCarp said:
When looking into and setting up for a corner, spot a section of trail that you want to execute the turn on...this may be a rut, the sides of a group of rocks or roots, part of a berm...really any high side that you can push the bike into that acts like a berm. In reality, this only needs to be as wide as your tire to fit on and does not need to be the entire turn available to you.

Have you ever seen a video where people look like they slam into a corner, and come out of it at the same speed but in a totally different direction? Well they are finding a section of trail to throw the bike into. Once your vision gets good at spotting these "mini features" you can work on the concept mentioned above of initiating a turn with your arms (i am not saying steering your handle bars) and finishing with your hips.

Not sure if I conveyed this idea properly but I can fine tune if you have questions. Cornering is a very dynamic movement to execute at speed and only starts with proper elbow/hip/bike position.
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This is very good advice. Commit your moves in the places you can find traction and support. Honing your senses to find those spots is something you gain over time though.

Though, if you haven't mastered the basics of basics, like braking in the straights instead of in the corner, this advice doesn't do much good.

Deliberate training/practice sessions, focused on mastering specific types of corners by drilling it over and over, will help far more than stringing together lots of corners in a big loop. Try mastering high speed fireroad turns onto singletrack trailheads, trying to carry as much speed as possible, for example. If you can get comfortable with that, most other slower turns wouldn't really feel like they're a problem. If you bring someone to watch and criticize you, or a video camera set on the ground by the corner, your practice sessions will increase dramatically in effectiveness.
 
#23 ·
LaXCarp said:
I wont get into initiating the turn with your arms and finishing it with your hips part but here is a helpful tip to start getting there:

When looking into and setting up for a corner, spot a section of trail that you want to execute the turn on...this may be a rut, the sides of a group of rocks or roots, part of a berm...really any high side that you can push the bike into that acts like a berm. In reality, this only needs to be as wide as your tire to fit on and does not need to be the entire turn available to you.

Have you ever seen a video where people look like they slam into a corner, and come out of it at the same speed but in a totally different direction? Well they are finding a section of trail to throw the bike into. Once your vision gets good at spotting these "mini features" you can work on the concept mentioned above of initiating a turn with your arms (i am not saying steering your handle bars) and finishing with your hips.

Not sure if I conveyed this idea properly but I can fine tune if you have questions. Cornering is a very dynamic movement to execute at speed and only starts with proper elbow/hip/bike position.
Click to expand...
Taking full advantage of natural, inconspicuous, unintentional mini-berms (ruts, tire tracks, etc.) has made me much better in the corners. When approaching a corner, I instantaneously search for anything with a positive camber that I can press my tires against so can carry as much speed as possible through the corner with minimal (or no) braking.

That and many other points are stressed heavily in "Mastering Mountain Bike Skills", second edition, by Brian Lopes and Lee McCormack, which my daughter bought me a number of years ago.

Not sure what others think of this book, but I have been biking seriously for over 2 decades and I still find it rich with detailed hints on lots of things, including cornering. Chapter 5, which is 22 pages long, is entitled "Carve any Corner". While there is all sorts of beginner-ish stuff which you will want to blow past, it nonetheless sets out a lot of helpful tips and tricks for even the most experienced of riders. It's written well written, has lots of pics and diagrams, and makes for easy, enjoyable bedtime reading. Maybe check it out at a bookstore next time you are around one.
 
#24 ·
Heavy feet, light hands. Weight the outside foot. Eyes where you wanna go (ie: exit of corner)

I find the more I push it (leaning the bike and weighting the edges of the tire) the more similar it is to skiing:

Relaxed, quiet upper body
Bend at the hips
Weight the downhill side and be smooth
 
#25 ·
Drop your seat and stand on your pedals. Put all your weight driving through your bottom bracket (like a mini squat). Wiggle your fingers. Look far ahead through the corner, spotting where you want to be when you exit the corner. Lean your bike in the direction you want to go, outside foot down, and steer with your hips (not your handlebars) pointing your entire core where you want to be. Now do it faster. Repeat.
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
thustlewhumber said:
drop your seat and stand on your pedals. Put all your weight driving through your bottom bracket (like a mini squat). Wiggle your fingers. Look far ahead through the corner, spotting where you want to be when you exit the corner. Lean your bike in the direction you want to go, outside foot down, and steer with your hips (not your handlebars) pointing your entire core where you want to be. Now do it faster. Repeat.
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sir yes sir!
 
#28 ·
Thustlewhumber said:
Drop your seat and stand on your pedals. Put all your weight driving through your bottom bracket (like a mini squat). Wiggle your fingers. Look far ahead through the corner, spotting where you want to be when you exit the corner. Lean your bike in the direction you want to go, outside foot down, and steer with your hips (not your handlebars) pointing your entire core where you want to be. Now do it faster. Repeat.
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The parallels between a proper MTB corner and a properly carved skiing corner is quite amazing, really. :thumbsup:
 
#29 ·
many good suggestions here, but I didn't see this one:

go to a local BMX track. practicing cornering on smooth surfaces is way easier than on a MTB trail. (I've heard rumors of groomed flow trails, but none exist in my area. If it's a MTB trail here, there will be some roots, rocks, and ruts.)

I also agree that you should have elbow & knee pads, preferably very light ones that you don't spend any time thinking about.
 
#31 ·
ColinL said:
many good suggestions here, but I didn't see this one:

... practicing cornering on smooth surfaces is way easier than on a MTB trail. ....
Click to expand...
Go to a baseball diamond. Ride the bases. The dirt is perfect. You can push it and push it until you just start breaking loose. You can really feel the tires gripping because there is nothing else to worry about. You can really focus, play with weight distribution, and turn from wide sweepers all the way into sharp digs. And if you fall down, you're SAFE!

-F
 
#34 ·
OSPoke said:
Do any of these strategies change for loose conditions like sand?
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Sand you just hold on lightly and ride it out. You can't steer, brake or pedal!
I'm surprised no one has mentioned getting a foot off. I cannot remember who told me, but a good drill for getting your body in the right position is to take off your inside foot, and place it level with your front axle. It really gets you forward, you can dab if you need to. And with practice you won't need to move it from the pedal anymore.
 
#35 ·
OSPoke said:
Do any of these strategies change for loose conditions like sand?
Click to expand...
In real sand, you're sorta outta luck with steering. Me and a buddy were racing on this creekside trail. At one corner where the creek had deposited a bunch of silt during high water, we both crashed. Soft landing, though. :)

The whole deal with cornering is adapting to the conditions. There is proper technique, but beyond that are all those little corrections that keep you on track. That takes a lot of practice IN those conditions until it becomes reflexive.

Mudguard25 said:
Sand you just hold on lightly and ride it out. You can't steer, brake or pedal!
I'm surprised no one has mentioned getting a foot off. I cannot remember who told me, but a good drill for getting your body in the right position is to take off your inside foot, and place it level with your front axle. It really gets you forward, you can dab if you need to. And with practice you won't need to move it from the pedal anymore.
Click to expand...
^^^ I agree with this!

-F
 
#36 ·
Mudguard25 said:
Sand you just hold on lightly and ride it out. You can't steer, brake or pedal!
I'm surprised no one has mentioned getting a foot off. I cannot remember who told me, but a good drill for getting your body in the right position is to take off your inside foot, and place it level with your front axle. It really gets you forward, you can dab if you need to. And with practice you won't need to move it from the pedal anymore.
Click to expand...
That's because with modern geometry getting forward is less Important. Steer with your hips and your rear wheel, back it into corners. In sand you want your weight over the back wheel or your front wheel will auger in.
 
#37 ·
You shouldn't be "staying off the front brake". You should use it in conjunction with the rear brake and use trail braking techniques. Don't be afraid to have the front tire slide a little but embrace it and control it. Tricky to do it well but worth the effort (and bumps and bruises)
 
#38 ·
Over the weeekend, I used some of the suggestions mentioned and had good results, but have a couple of things to add. These may be obvious or debatable, but here goes.

I thought that lower handlebars were better, provided you're comfortable and capable on downhill riding. However, this is not the case when it comes to better turns. I found that my arms were nearly locked on turns with the stem all the way down, despite being comfortable. This kept me from really driving my hands into the turn. Lesson learned, make sure your arms are bent when judging your handlebar height and stem length. I'm sure handlebar width comes into play here as well. Otherwise, you may not be able to lean your hands and bike into the turn while keeping your weight centered.

Secondly, after reading some articles on how your bike should fit, I found that I was unbalanced on my seat when leaning forward. In other words, I had too much weight on my hands. My solution was debatable, but it worked for me. I purchased an offset seatpost to move my seat back relative to my BB which balanced my body better. This isn't for everyone. I have a long torsou, which makes sense why this helped me.

Both of these strategies helped me balance my weight on both the rear and front tires and lean my hands into turns while keeping my weighted centered - improving my turns through sandy sections. The resulsts - my rear tire would wash out before my front, which encouraged me to take my turns faster with lest risk of losing front wheel traction.
 
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