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Commencal HT VS Santa Cruz Highball

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pabbs

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Okay so this is my last post before purchasing a bike. This is probably harder than when I picked my 2015 5.0 lol.

So after doing some research. I found 2 bikes that I borderline love. The 27.5 highball and the 27.5 Commencal Meta Am HT. I'm leaning more towards the Meta simply cause I know I'll abuse the bike and might even crash a few times. I know I'm not a pro but I'm the type of guy that'll push myself the the breaking point. Then I'll get up and do it again. I don't wanna bash in a highball since it'll run me about double a meta. But if really like some personal opinions on the Meta vs Highball. Is the meta even worth modding ?


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#2 ·
Really different bikes. I mean, they're both hardtails and they have the same wheel size. But the Highball's a fairly racy XC bike and the Meta's got a 150 mm fork. If it has the typical geometry for bikes with that fork, they're going to have really different handling personalities.

I demoed a Highball a few years ago when they were 29ers. That's what got me sold on 29" wheels, actually. I thought it was really fun.

Saber-rattling aside, what does "push myself the the breaking point" mean? Do you want to get to the tops of things fast? Huck yourself? Get to the bottoms of things fast? Get around a circuit fast? They're different jobs...
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
So highball is still top dawg then. Alright there's a shop that said they'd sell me the 27.5 highball 20% off the Santa Cruz website price if I pay with cash. Is that good? Do you think I can get better discount elsewhere? Or is that unheard of?

I push myself to the breaking point meaning. I typically don't like backing down from challenges simply out of fear. Id try it out but if I felt it was unsafe then I'd stop and reanalyze the situation. If that makes any sense.


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#4 ·
You're still giving me a bs answer.

Have you ridden either bike? Have you gone mountain biking?

Pricing on bikes is pretty variable. 20% off on a this-year's bike at this time of year is nothing to sniff at. A '14 bike would go for less. Get into secondhand bikes, prices go down more. Some bikes sell out in preorder, at list price.
 
Discussion starter · #5 · (Edited)
I know there was a demo for the Santa Cruz but couldn't make the drive. So I'm buying blind. And if I don't like the ride I don't think it'll be hard to sell the bike and purchase another.


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#6 ·
Making the drive would have been cheaper but you can go your route and buy and resell bikes until you develop some skill and knowledge through riding and find a bike you like. A 27.5 hard tail is going to be a little harder to resell, but everything has some value and the cost is relative to your income.
Since you are ok spending I'd go $260 more for the S model. The Fit damper Fox fork and components are worth it.
Eventual upgrades-
The stock wheelset has very skinny rims, so start saving for some wider ones. $620 if you build them yourself for decent parts going Chinese carbon.
They will give the bike some rear compliance for bumps and help you washout and crash less.
 
#7 ·
pabbs said:
I know there was a demo for the Santa Cruz but couldn't make the drive. So I'm buying blind. And if I don't like the ride I don't think it'll be hard to sell the bike and purchase another.

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You're going to get hosed reselling a retail or near-retail bike. They drop about 40% of their value when they're wheeled out of the shop. If that 20% off is something you didn't need a special relationship to get, it's probably about what that bike is worth new in your area, which makes it with more like 50% of sticker used. I'm not sure where you're at on disposable income and it's not really my business. But if these bikes are expensive for you, it's worth making an effort to get it right.

Most mountain bikes are more versatile than people and marketing departments give them credit for. I love descending on my XC bike and have been pleasantly surprised climbing on AM bikes. But I think people are usually happiest when they have bikes that match their favorite aspects of mountain biking and the trails they have access to.

So what's grabbing you about MTB? Something must be making you curious enough to take a flier on a bike you've never ridden. Do you have any friends who ride?
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
I live in Los Angeles California. I have no special relation to the bike shop. I've actually never knew it existed before walking in.

It's just something I want to do with my younger brother. Something to bond over.

So In your honest opinion what would be top 5 beginner bikes I should demo? Highest price point being 3000.


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#9 ·
Does your brother ride now?

TBH, I think that at any given pricepoint, class, and type of purchase, it's usually a wash.

In my region, I chose a $3000 (retail, I ride with a team) full suspension over a $3000 hardtail with fancier components and a carbon frame. Rear suspension has become more important to me.

But really, I think you need to figure out what class you want. The Highball is very well regarded if what you want is a XC hardtail.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
No he doesn't Ride right now. He's also doing his research before buying. But he really likes the specialized hardtail.

What's the difference from 100-150mm forks? What's the pros and cons?


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#11 ·
pabbs - you guys are thinking of spending a pretty good chunk of change to try something out. Personally, I would rather see you guys get something at lower price point to start out with. You don't wanna dump a few grand on a bike that ends up being not well suited for the type of riding you hope to do with it. At that price, **** can tend to get pretty specialized, and it makes sense to have a good idea what you see yourself doing with it before buying a bike that's not really meant for how you like to ride.

A bike that's gonna be a party hitting dirt jumps all day is not going to be very fun on a 40 mile XC ride with hours of climbing. You got any particular local places you're thinking of going? What kind of stuff is it you want to ride? Get lots of miles, or get lots of air? Or somewhere in between?
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
I honestly want something that'll allow me to do a bit of everything in the beginning because I want to be able to say "holy **** jumps are fun. I need more air!" Or "downhill is for me" I know by saying I want a versatile bike I won't be getting just that and it might be a crap bike but I want something that'll allow me to find what I love and what I don't like if that makes any sense at all.

Well I live in Cali and I have the MTB PROJECT app that shows me near by trails.

Oh an another thing. I don't have a bike rack so it'll have to be a bike that's comfortable riding on the street. To be honest I think if someone were to point me in a direction and help me buy a bike id be able to build off of that. I just don't know what I'm looking at when I do go to shops. And I feel that some people will and have taken advantage of that.


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#13 ·
It refers to how much suspension travel they have. Longer-travel forks weigh and cost more, suffer from diminishing returns, and it seems to be harder to build bikes with good uphill handling around them. But, they can have a higher "speed limit."

I actually don't think travel per se is the main event. Bike frames can be built to have really different personality. It's not necessarily obvious without digging through the geometry charts, and even then, I think developing a good understanding of what it all means is hard. But amounts of suspension travel and classes of bikes go together pretty much the same way pretty consistently. Which is to say that nobody designs a XC bike around a 150 mm fork and bikes designed to descend fast have been pretty quick to move to longer amounts of suspension travel.

It's going to sound kind of circular, but I think for practical purposes for consumers - us - it's more that 100 mm forks are on bikes designed to be fast on a circuit with no net elevation loss and 150 mm forks are on bikes that make some sacrifices to help a rider get down a mountain faster and maybe party a little more along the way. Long XC routes and race courses almost always involve more time spent climbing, so the bikes reflect that. AM guys spend more time climbing too, but seem to have a different attitude about it - more means to an end than part of the story.

Which is why I keep trying to get a sense of what you want from riding.

I wrote before that it doesn't matter as much as marketing guys would have you think. But people end up feeling frustrated and foolish when they buy some long-travel beast and then start racing XC, and the forums are littered with people who bought a XC bike and then discovered jumping and flow trails. I think that's more under buying than class of bike, but...
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
Eb1888- that bike looks very dope!!

Rangerriderdave- damn that's so far but I'll see if someone friends would like to tag along. That's a 5 hour drive for me lol.


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#18 ·
Pabbs, you live less than a half hour drive from me. What trails do you see yourself riding (if you know of any of them)?

I really think you should ride some demos before dropping serious coin ($3K is serious coin) on a bike when you're not even sure about what aspect of riding you're most into.

The Highball is a nice bike, but there is a crapton of nice bikes out there. And, as Andrew alluded to, you're kind of all over the map on the type of bike you're looking for, which makes me believe you've read more than you've ridden. We all start somewhere, but I think you would do best to slow the roll a little and get it figured out.

If you're tall enough, I might have a bike around to take you out and see what you're into.
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
I'm 5"9 so im average. I live in San Fernando valley. So I would hit up trails in Simi Valley Topanga canyon Malibu Hollywood sigh for fun and local things I can get to on bike.


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