2014 Pike RCT3 160mm 29”ner SAG Issue - must use very low pressure to get 25% SAG

Spokes572 · Jun 11, 2014

Rock Shox Pike RCT3 160mm 29"ner SAG Issue
I am 190lbs
Label on fork says 180lbs-200lbs use 75psi - 85psi so ~ 80 psi target!
80psi gives me 15% static sag. Riding I get 15-19% sag consistently

I currently run 58psi to get ~25% sag(6 out of 10 times) SAG not repeatable!!!!!
Riding I get ~20%-25% sag consistently but eventually dips to 29% Sag
Rebound 13out/16 but should be running ~8out! Super fast to stop packing on long down hills.
Compression 10in/12 but should be running 6in Way in to allow out of seat climbing

Issue:
1. Sag air pressure recommended by SRAM for my weight gives me 15% sag static
2. Have to run super low air pressure to get recommended 25% sag and have to run excessive rebound and compression to stop packing and fork dive.
3. On long flat rides, the fork settles down low in the stroke since there is not much air in the bladder, this low ridding throws off the shock settings since the low front end un-weights the rear shock.
4. Can't do a big drop off since not enough air in bladder to take the load

Has anyone else seen this problem. I was told there was metal casting in the oil from manufacturing clogging some hole. Now the bike shop is going to drain and clean, but not sure if this will solve issue.

Any feedback will be helpful.
Thanks,
Spokes
Bay Area California

Jayem · Jun 11, 2014

You use whatever spring pressure gives you the right sag, whether it's PSI or a coil spring. This is a fundamental shock setting tenant.

Not sure what you mean by "air in the bladder". There should be no air in the damping bladder. There is an air chamber, which is what you pressurize with positive air. There is also a self-adjusting negative spring.

Typically, air shocks and forks don't run quite as much sag as their coil counterparts, 20% is usually about right, but more than that can really affect the dive in my experience. The reason is that an air spring rate is very flat in the middle of travel. This is much better on modern shocks/forks, but running around 30% sag usually results in poor performance IME with most air shocks. That said, it'd be interesting to know what your settings are. how much compression, rebound, etc. I find the pike generally rides higher than a comparable coil fork or fork with older damping technology, especially during the hard g-out choppy turns on the DH runs, seldom does anything seem "perfect" here, but there was always enough travel left for a serious bump, which is more than I could say about some of the weak-compression damping found on other forks. It might ride a little harsh at lower speeds when set up like this, but for traveling at mach 6 down the mountain, it worked pretty damn good and allowed for great control.

I found that setting up my pike with more tokens resulted in some packing and the damping being a little overwhelmed by the progressive nature of the fork, so it didn't seem to react quite as well on the high speed impacts, but it's not bad to experiment a bit.

shopcat_cycles · Jun 11, 2014

Have you tried trail riding it at 75-80psi? With other brands, I typically run 25-30% sag, but my Revelation RCT3 rides noticeably better with less sag. I definitely have had the same issue with the fork packing up on descents when running lower pressures.

Spokes574 · Jun 11, 2014

I usually just setup the fork air pressure untill i get the sag i need. But everyone who has the new pike 2014 have all said they are within the 5psi of the recommended table on the fork leg. So for me to run 20psi less than the recommended table is too low. I am using 58psi which is pressure for a 160lb person. I weight 192lbs. using so low air pressure at my weight the bike runs low in the stroke on long rides and packs on long decents. I would not think of jumping a hill more than 12" because i will bottom out. To compensate i run the rebound all out to stop packing and midstroke compression almost closed to keep diving from happening. This is not right. RockSox is aware but said no recall or notice since its not a safety issue. The bike shop is going to clean the air side but i do not think that's going to solve the problem. The fork is going to have to get sent in for service. I will now later today. Crap. for a $10K bike i did not expect so many issues.
I will keep everyone posted. Folks who get this fork and are not critical like me may not notice the issue or problem but i am super sensitive to my setup. This low air pressure makes the front end run low on long sections and throws off the shock setting. My shock feels super stiff, i have to run extra sag now to lower the back so i can use the shock compression clickers to make up for the front end running so low in stroke on long sections.
I will keep everyone posted.
Spokes
Bay Area California

Jayem · Jun 11, 2014

Spokes574 said:
But everyone who has the new pike 2014 have all said they are within the 5psi of the recommended table on the fork leg.

If they are all saying this, they are lying.

Spokes572 · Jun 12, 2014

OK the bike shop open the fork and tried to service it and spent 1.5hrs with RockShox technical support on the phone. They found a part not moving. Not sure exactly what the part was but there was definitely an issue so I was not crazy that something was not correct in getting the proper sag with the target air pressure. Now, there may be other issues also, but the fork is being sent back in for servicing. RockShox was very good to the bike shop and the bike shop said they got great support from them. I am just glad to finally get this thing resolved. Sad thing is there was another bike on the bike shop floor that i was going to take and swap the fork with and we tried to setup SAG on the other bike and that fork also has the issue. So that fork is also being sent in for service. Fork is a 29ner Pike for the Enduro S-Works 29ner.
Well there you go, a new fork with an issue that unless you were picky you would just leave as is an never know the fork was not running correctly. But i am picky and sensitive to suspension setup so i found it after 6 weeks of testing and sorta wasting my time.
Spokes572
Bay Area CA

Spokes572 · Jun 12, 2014

Please note if one has to use super low air pressure to get 25% sag, and i do mean 20 to 25psi less than the recommended pressure then there is definitely a red flag. That lead me to have the fork check out and sure enough a problem was found. Thats all i am saying.

BTW I agree that you do not have to run recommended SAG on all forks. On my fox forks i definitely run less sag than recommended since the mid stroke on the Floats are not that firm. The 2014 Float 160mm 26" fork is better than the 2013 model in the midstroke, but sill not as good as a Pike! I also have the 2014 Float on my Pivit 5.7 Carbon. Good but not great. I compensate the less sag on the Float by running lower air pressure to minimize the rough ride on small bumps. I run tubeless.

Spokes572 · Jun 18, 2014

Installed new fork that RockShox sent me. I called a couple of highend suspension companies and they said to setup the fork with the recommended air pressure and adjust from there. they said do not start from a sag target. Apparently since for enduro riding since everyone has a different style sag will be different based upon riding style.
So i listened and started with recommeded sag for my wt on the sticker. I bit firm on cobble stones so i reduced 8 psi and thought is was perfect for now until the fork breaks in a bit. I ended up with 19% sag. Funny, that is what i run on my 2014 Fox 34 Float 160mm fork. Fork is working great and sag is very repeatable. Fork is super smooth and very plush initially. Old fork did not have this trait i guess due to the issues it had. I am a happy Pike fork owner.
Spokes572
Bay Area California

Paris Galanis · Jun 19, 2014

I have a brand new 170mm Lyrik and I also have the same problem. With the recommended psi I only get 15% sag and the fork is extremely stiff and in order to get around 30-35% sag that I usually run I need to drop down the pressure around 20 psi and then the fork works really well.

The interesting thing is that in the Domain I used before I also had to move from an extra firm spring to a medium one in order to get the required sag and use almost all travel in my typical rides so I don't worry that much.

After all and regardless of the recommended psi it all comes down to achieving the desired performance.

Miker J · Jun 19, 2014

Jayem said:
You use whatever spring pressure gives you the right sag, whether it's PSI or a coil spring. This is a fundamental shock setting tenant.

Not sure what you mean by "air in the bladder". There should be no air in the damping bladder. There is an air chamber, which is what you pressurize with positive air. There is also a self-adjusting negative spring.

Typically, air shocks and forks don't run quite as much sag as their coil counterparts, 20% is usually about right, but more than that can really affect the dive in my experience. The reason is that an air spring rate is very flat in the middle of travel. This is much better on modern shocks/forks, but running around 30% sag usually results in poor performance IME with most air shocks. That said, it'd be interesting to know what your settings are. how much compression, rebound, etc. I find the pike generally rides higher than a comparable coil fork or fork with older damping technology, especially during the hard g-out choppy turns on the DH runs, seldom does anything seem "perfect" here, but there was always enough travel left for a serious bump, which is more than I could say about some of the weak-compression damping found on other forks. It might ride a little harsh at lower speeds when set up like this, but for traveling at mach 6 down the mountain, it worked pretty damn good and allowed for great control.

I found that setting up my pike with more tokens resulted in some packing and the damping being a little overwhelmed by the progressive nature of the fork, so it didn't seem to react quite as well on the high speed impacts, but it's not bad to experiment a bit.

Good post.

What's said in Jayem's post supports what I've found on most RockShox forks I've had, including both Pikes I'm running now.

Way "back when", running 30% sag on a fork with 5"" of travel or more was common. Trying to do that with modern a Pike, or even Fox rear shock, doesn't work so well. Too much dive and bottoming out. Adding spacers and tokens to the shocks I've worked on helps only a little. It results in a more progressive spring rate, but only causes a "ramp up" at the very end of the travel. Doesn't seem to affect the entire curve of the spring - only the tail end. So, the shocks still blow through the top 2/3 of their travel way too easily.

A linear, coil-like spring rate is what air forks were after. Seems to me they went too far and now to remedy this we now have easy access to dials that bump up LSC. That does help somewhat I suppose.

Running the Pike at no more than 20% sag works much better but it's taken along time for me to figure that out. Running a 150mm travel fork at barley 20% would have been unheard of 10 years ago for most trail riders (not that we had 150mm forks for trail riding).

Based on the psi - weight range RockShox posts, my pressures are coming in at the low end on their scale. If I went closer to the middle with their numbers I'd be at 12-15% sag.

Sag - I think 20 is the new 30.

Paris Galanis · Jun 19, 2014

Hi. When you run your Pike with 20% sag do you get full travel or almost full travel in every ride?

Personally when I was running all my forks with 20% sag I was never getting full travel and the ride was harsh. So considering that I don't do gravity stuff I will go with the "use almost all travel in each ride" rule because otherwise I don't see the point of having a 150, 160, 170 fork if I never use its full travel.

Miker J · Jun 21, 2014

Paris Galanis said:
Hi. When you run your Pike with 20% sag do you get full travel or almost full travel in every ride?

Personally when I was running all my forks with 20% sag I was never getting full travel and the ride was harsh. So considering that I don't do gravity stuff I will go with the "use almost all travel in each ride" rule because otherwise I don't see the point of having a 150, 160, 170 fork if I never use its full travel.

Sort of...

First off, if I recall correctly I may have an extra token in there. Also, I have 2 Pikes - a 140 on an LTc and a 150 on an M6. Now running both at 20%.

I don't like to bottom out the fork - ever. Just doesn't seem like its good for the fork. So, I consider "full travel" anything about 0.5cm till bottom out.

The rides/loops I have are quite different. Some definitely have "air" and others not much at all. So, on the rides where there is air, I do get "full travel".

2014 Pike RCT3 160mm 29”ner SAG Issue - must use very low pressure to get 25% SAG

Spokes572

Jayem

shopcat_cycles

Spokes574

Jayem

Spokes572

Spokes572

Spokes572

Paris Galanis

Miker J

Paris Galanis

Miker J

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