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What Rear Hub Ratchet failed you on your tandem?

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21 - 40 of 52 Posts
#21 ·
I'm surprised you have 135mm rear dropout spacing. Are you sure? I'm running 140 on my '97 Cannondale and I feel like I'm in the dark ages, since everything seems to be 145 and wider these days. You should be able to get a 140 to fit. If you think about it, you're only moving each dropout out 2.5mm, which isn't a lot. I'm sure you're using an aluminum frame, where cold setting (bending) is not recommended. Even so, people have done it. Perhaps contact your frame manufacturer to see what they say. Again, I'd be surprised if slipping in a 140 wouldn't work just fine. You may want to have your LBS take a look and put some dropout alignment tools on there to see how well they're aligned and how they look when at 140mm.

That being said, CK says they have custom axles available, so inquire with them.

Good luck!
 
#23 ·
PMK said:
Did all those little parts come out of that big part, or did you kind of fake the photo?

PK
Click to expand...
All the parts ( pawls and springs) came the outside of the drive shell and bearings and bearing cages came from the inside of the shell. So, yes, all the little parts came from the big part. No artistic license taken here...promise.
 
#24 ·
ECDMs are 135mm mostly, 145mm if it's an ECDM 29'er that we sold; Teresa tells me others have used 135mm on the 29'er ECDM's.
To make the King rear hub tandem-capable, King spec's the HD axel, preferably with Fun Bolts, and the stainless steel driveshell. Those are the only differences that I know of between the regular King hubs and the Tandem hub (except the 145mm version, which uses the old Discotech hub shell and the separate disc brake adaptor).
 
#27 ·
I've said this before on other hub related threads, but it's worth repeating because of the relevance here. We are a relatively light team (275lbs) and to a significant amount of climbing on our tandem(s). We have destroyed a White Industries hub and an Industry Nine hub. We have Chris King hubs on two MTB tandems and they have held up and have had no issues. It should be noted that we run a 22t granny gear with 11-36 cassette on 29" wheels. So that's a low gear creating a lot of torque.

It sucks pushing your tandem when your hub is spinning freely (in both directions). Been there done that... Now after several thousand miles, with lots of vertical, I am convinced that the Chris King rear hub is worth every penny!
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
Ds, Your comment in a private post to me is the inspiration for my research into this. I'll wait and see what develops on the Clydes poll, but at this point, your opinion seems to be well supported. No one has reported a first-hand Chris King failure yet. That is true of no other brand.

Unless that changes dramatically, Chris King is what I'm shopping for :)
 
#29 ·
Whichever high end tandem hub you buy, be certain the freehub body is not aluminum. The cassette will notch pretty much all the materials but aluminum is the worst.

PK
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
That is my intent, I'm curious though. Many people comment that their freehub is notched; while it certainly makes pulling the cassette off more difficult, I haven't read of any actual failure because of it. Fodder for another thread :)
 
#31 ·
When we first got our CK wheelset we were using the LX cassette (individual cogs). 3 months into the new wheels and it was already a fight (needing a persuader) to get the cassette off. Much longer and I might not have been able to get it off. And that's with the stainless drive shell that comes on the HD setup.

We've had good luck with XT cassettes, and have in fact worn one out due to chain wear.
 
#32 ·
ki5ka said:
Ds, Your comment in a private post to me is the inspiration for my research into this. I'll wait and see what develops on the Clydes poll, but at this point, your opinion seems to be well supported. No one has reported a first-hand Chris King failure yet. That is true of no other brand.

Unless that changes dramatically, Chris King is what I'm shopping for :)
Click to expand...
I have the tandem versions in stock;)
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
Will you all of you please hop over to the clyde site and add your numbers to the expanded poll I posted there. I included many more brands and an option for both "I killed" and "won't die" so we can also look at the equipment that is holding up as well as failures. The more data we collect, the more accurate and conclusive the analysis will be. Can you tell I'm a science teacher :)
 
#35 ·
Won't be accurate - non-random sampling, based simply on the attraction of those affected to the thread title, and no allowance for #'s sold vs #'s failed, which is one of the best indicators of all. My observations are based on those two things - how many sold vs how many failed, which is why I don't have a clearer position on Hadley.
Just my opinion, of course, but actual failure rates are VERY hard to pin down, since manufacturers aren't required to report them. And again, mode of failure is almost as important as whether they fail or not; it's pretty easy to get a DT running again in the field if the ratchet ring fails. It's way more difficult to get a PW or WI running again when the hubshell itself splits.
Seriously - fixie! Or Rohloff...
 
Discussion starter · #36 ·
Alex, you are absolutely right. A poll of bike shop owners experience would be very informative. The number sold vs failed is crucial to painting an accurate picture.

Do you think there is a way to present such a poll to shop owners in a manner that would be appealing and encourage a response? How about a venue?

As a rider and builder of my own wheels, this is information that I would find golden.
 
#37 ·
Well Bill Nye...one factor not placed in the pole is the distance walked to get home or back to the trailhead / car. The further you walk, the less important cost will be in the stokers eyes, and the more pain on the captains eye drums.

Alex has been a great teacher in sharing his experience.

As for the Hadleys, weren't these the hubs Santana used and have been known to fail. That could be wrong so take it as just possible information.

Honestly, if there is a trend, it would lean towards either King tandem or DT tandem for reliability, a lot of road teams use WI and Alex probably knows more the % for off road.

Bottom line though...walking out is not fun at all.

If Alex would like, I can demo a DT drive rebuild at AORTA (can bring the extra road hub which is the same), if he has a Chris King hub we could likely do that, and even a WI if needed. Just a thought since this seems to be a common topic annually. We could even Video for You Tube...

PK
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
Thanks for the Bill Nye reference :)

As Alex said, respondents are self-selecting, and it seems a reasonable assumption that those with more unpleasant experience will be more likely to respond. Though that will skew the numbers, that bias does not necessarily make data less telling since I am more interested in failures that resulted in significant inconvenience and would like to see those responses weighted anyway.

I don't want to get ahead of myself with a conclusion just yet, but I think that your hypothesis will be support. ;)

Anyway, the most useful thing is a large response. Even with inevitable biases in the data, the more responses the poll collects, the more clearly patterns will stand out. The poll is still getting about 1 response every 2 hours. It appears that the post doesn't get moved up with each poll response, only if someone posts a response. If this information interests you, you can help keep it visible by posting a response to "bump" it up the list. I'm feeling self-conscious doing it myself.
 
#40 ·
Another factor that must be considered is whether the hub was being used on a tandem mtb or not. I believe tandems represent the hardest use any bicycle hub will see, at least until electric assist becomes more common (Heaven help us all!).
And therein lies the problem: the sampling will be very small, since off-road tandems are pretty rare.

As for shops providing input to a survey of sorts, that might be possible, but the input would most likely need to be anonymous for many to participate.

Personally, I am reluctant to speak badly of a component publicly, as our use is probably beyond the intended parameters of most rear hubs. I prefer instead to try to work with the manufacturers to address the failure instead of hitting them up with bad press because a product failed in an extreme environment like off-road use. Some of them work with us, others tell me they don't know what else can be done, or it isn't worth the very small market potential to make improvements, when the hub works 99.5% of the time in other applications.
 
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