Tom Ritchey's 1st mtb in 1977 was a 650b

skinewmexico · Sep 26, 2012

MOJO K said:
650b and all aside...Why is it that Tom Ritchey never gets any older?

Doing what he loves, so he's never worked a day in his life!

GrahamWallace · Oct 6, 2012

Fillet-brazed said:
I'm guessing Ritchey may have got the date wrong on this one at the show.

And whoever wrote the story on the caption has got the story muddled up.

The English Woodsie "rough-stuff" bike did have 650b wheels but the versions made by Ritchey in the late 1970s used 26 inch rims and tires not 650b as the caption implies.

The real story goes as follows:
Gary Fisher who had missed out getting one of the first batch of Breezers, asked Ritchey if he could also have one of these 26" wheeled Woodsie copies. Thus started the relationship between Fisher/Kelly and Ritchey, where Ritchey made bikes that were then sold by Fisher and Kelly's "MountainBike" company. Initially all these bikes were made with 26" wheels, but in 1980 English off-road cycling pioneer contacted Fisher and Kelly and told them of the large diameter tires that Apps used on his own bikes. Apps then sent some 650bx54mm samples, and Ritchey was asked by Fisher and Kelly to build a frame in readiness for their arrival. Ritchey and other NorCal frame builders went on to build many bikes using the tires that Apps exported to Fisher.

The information in the above letter would date the Tom Ritchey 650b bike on display to 1981 at the earliest.

By 1984 the erratic supply situation from Finland coupled with higher import costs of these adult sized tires made Fisher lose interest. As by then cheap high quality 26" tires were readily available.

I don't know if there is any truth to the Russian Army story. It could have simply been that the Finnish Factory made them in short and infrequent batches. Apps also exported 700cx47mm Hakkapeliitta tires (28x 1-5/8 x 1-3/4). The size that was coppied by Bruce Gordon in 1888 to become the "Rock n' Road" tire that Wes Williams used.

Chad_M · Oct 30, 2013

Found this by accident from google. Cool video and story though!

jrsbike · Oct 30, 2013

If I recall correctly Luigi Cinelli once stated that the main reason early frame builders stayed with 700C wheels was because the roads were so rough at the time and that in the future when roads would be smoother the 650C wheel size would be optimum. HIstory did not heed him and only touring and tri bikes use that today.

dwt · Oct 30, 2013

Lennard Zinn on 650b mtn bike history:

The 650b size has been around for a long time - at least 50 years. It was a popular trekking and tandem size in Europe in the 1960s and 1970s, for instance.

When I was working in Tom Ritchey's framebuilding shop in 1981, he made some bikes for himself and friends to fit some Nokian Hakkapeliitta 650b tires that Gary Fisher was importing. (At the time, Ritchey was building bikes that Gary Fisher was distributing through his shop in San Anselmo, CA, and they carried the Ritchey logo with "Mountain Bikes," Fisher's business name, superimposed over it).

The Hakkapeliitta tires were great compared to the 26-inch mountain bike tires you could find at the time. The Hakkapeliitta casing was supple, the weight was low, and the tread pattern was refined, fast, and quite aggressive, whereas the 26-inch tires of the day were just big square blocks on a heavy carcass. You could even get studded Hakkapeliitta 650b tires, as those were used for bike racing on frozen lakes in Finland, where the tires were made. According to Wikipedia, Nokian adopted the Hakkapeliitta name for its winter tires in 1936. It still uses it.

We used Super Champion 650b tandem rims back then, which were lighter than most 26-inch mountain bike rims of the time.

After all, you should remember that a primary reason 26-inch became the default mountain bike tire size starting in the 1970s and 1980s was simply that import duties on them were cheaper, as the US Customs Dept. charged a higher duty rate on adult bikes than on children's bikes, and it considered 26-inch to be a children's-bike tire size.

The sweet fillet-brazed Ritchey 650b bikes Tom was making then were great - light, nimble, and faster-rolling than the Ritchey standard-production 26-inch bikes.

When I left Tom's employ and came back to Boulder, I took a Ritchey 650b bike with me and rode it for years, including in some cyclocross races as well as all over the Crested Butte area on my honeymoon in 1983. I loved that bike. It always drew lots of looks, because there were no others in Colorado at the time.

I built a number of 650b mountain bikes after I started my own framebuilding business in 1982, and my customers loved them, but when Fisher could no longer get the tires in 1983 or 1984, I quit doing so.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/06/mtb/tech-faq-whats-the-big-deal-with-650b_252295

Hurricane Jeff · Oct 30, 2013

What made me suspicious about that bike being from 1977 was the uni-crown fork. Not to say those forks were not around then in one form or another, but why would Ritchey have used a twin crown fork on his earlier 1980's bikes, then switch back to a uni-crown later?
I'm not doubting his involvement in the 650b wheel size back then, just stating that the bike at the show didn't appear to be a bike from that era.
Looking at the room on the chain stays on my 82' SJ, I could probably fit a 650b wheel in there.

dwt · Oct 31, 2013

Hurricane Jeff said:
What made me suspicious about that bike being from 1977 was the uni-crown fork. Not to say those forks were not around then in one form or another, but why would Ritchey have used a twin crown fork on his earlier 1980's bikes, then switch back to a uni-crown later?
I'm not doubting his involvement in the 650b wheel size back then, just stating that the bike at the show didn't appear to be a bike from that era.
Looking at the room on the chain stays on my 82' SJ, I could probably fit a 650b wheel in there.

The Gary Fischer letter and the Lennard Zinn excerpt confirm that by 1981 Ritchey was building bikes to fit 650b wheels. Whether the first such bike was 1977 or a few years later, assuming that it makes any substantive difference, requires more testimony from people who were there.

GrahamWallace · Jul 7, 2014

dwt said:
The Gary Fischer letter and the Lennard Zinn excerpt confirm that by 1981 Ritchey was building bikes to fit 650b wheels. Whether the first such bike was 1977 or a few years later, assuming that it makes any substantive difference, requires more testimony from people who were there.

A 1977 mountain bike made by Ritchey of any wheel size would rewrite history because it implies that Ritchey and not Joe Breeze made the first custom built mountain bike. It is therefore an unsubstantiated claim to have invented the mountain bike.

Here's the testimony of Charlie Kelly:
"If there was a 650B version of our bikes prior to 1979, I'm pretty sure I would have heard about it".Rewriting Mountain Bike History? - Page 3 | Retrobike
And this from Bill Savage alias clunkerbill on the first page of the same thread:
"This bike made quite a splash at InterBike this year. It was confusing, because it gave the distinct impression of being a historic bike built in 1977. This bike was obviously displayed to stake historic claim on the current 65B craze. That was Professor J.F. Scott's (RIP) deal. The text accompanying the bike was quite vague, and for good reason. It was not built in 1977, but Tom now says he definitely built one just like it back in '77 and this is a replica of that bike, though none of the parts on this bike were available before 1980. Confused yet? This bike was probably built in the early(ish) 1980s as a special order. Some bikes of that size were definitely built in the '80s by TR and this is one of them. Not one person I ever spoke to actually saw the original phantom '77 650B bike back then. As you might imagine, if they had that would have been BIG NEWS! It never once came up in my research or in my countless hours of conversations with Tom, Joe, Gary, J.F. Scott (RIP) and everyone else who was around back then. The way I heard it, Tom told Joe he 'was planning on making a 650B bike' when Joe finally showed him Breezer #1. That meeting with Tom didn't take place until January of 1979. Joe had been racing that bike for more than a year by the time Tom even saw it. Seeing Joe's bike Tom realized the higher volume of the readily available 2.125 rubber was clearly the way to go on rugged terrain. In the end it matters not. Legends all."

And another anonymous quote from a BB?
"As someone that was part of the early Norcal mountainbike scene I can confirm that many of us were playing with 650b Hakkepelitta's early on before the Cycle Pro Snakebelly made 26″ the size of choice. IIRC Gary Fisher showed up at the 81 Cross Natz on a Ritchey 650b bike and Jim Merz was also making bikes in this format at the time. Over at Fulton Street Cyclery they were selling Jack Taylor Rough Stuff bikes also using 650b. I hung on to mine until 87 before finally punting it."

Gary Boulanger of Dirt Rag/Bicycle Times magazine who currently resides in the Bay area and is in contact with many of the early players in mountain biking. Gary writes, "Regarding the so-called '77 Ritchey 650B bike on display at Interbike, "according to Joe Breeze and a few others, the frame set was actually built in 1980, most of the components were from 1985 or so, and the bike was originally built with drop bars. It was a touring bike; a nice one, but not a mountain bike, as Tom suggests, and certainly not in 1977."
But a tour has spice | gypsy by trade

dwt · Jul 7, 2014

GrahamWallace said:
A 1977 mountain bike made by Ritchey of any wheel size would rewrite history because it implies that Ritchey and not Joe Breeze made the first custom built mountain bike. It is therefore an unsubstantiated claim to have invented the mountain bike.

Here's the testimony of Charlie Kelly:
"If there was a 650B version of our bikes prior to 1979, I'm pretty sure I would have heard about it".Rewriting Mountain Bike History? - Page 3 | Retrobike
And this from Bill Savage alias clunkerbill on the first page of the same thread:
"This bike made quite a splash at InterBike this year. It was confusing, because it gave the distinct impression of being a historic bike built in 1977. This bike was obviously displayed to stake historic claim on the current 65B craze. That was Professor J.F. Scott's (RIP) deal. The text accompanying the bike was quite vague, and for good reason. It was not built in 1977, but Tom now says he definitely built one just like it back in '77 and this is a replica of that bike, though none of the parts on this bike were available before 1980. Confused yet? This bike was probably built in the early(ish) 1980s as a special order. Some bikes of that size were definitely built in the '80s by TR and this is one of them. Not one person I ever spoke to actually saw the original phantom '77 650B bike back then. As you might imagine, if they had that would have been BIG NEWS! It never once came up in my research or in my countless hours of conversations with Tom, Joe, Gary, J.F. Scott (RIP) and everyone else who was around back then. The way I heard it, Tom told Joe he 'was planning on making a 650B bike' when Joe finally showed him Breezer #1. That meeting with Tom didn't take place until January of 1979. Joe had been racing that bike for more than a year by the time Tom even saw it. Seeing Joe's bike Tom realized the higher volume of the readily available 2.125 rubber was clearly the way to go on rugged terrain. In the end it matters not. Legends all."

And another anonymous quote from a BB?
"As someone that was part of the early Norcal mountainbike scene I can confirm that many of us were playing with 650b Hakkepelitta's early on before the Cycle Pro Snakebelly made 26″ the size of choice. IIRC Gary Fisher showed up at the 81 Cross Natz on a Ritchey 650b bike and Jim Merz was also making bikes in this format at the time. Over at Fulton Street Cyclery they were selling Jack Taylor Rough Stuff bikes also using 650b. I hung on to mine until 87 before finally punting it."

Gary Boulanger of Dirt Rag/Bicycle Times magazine who currently resides in the Bay area and is in contact with many of the early players in mountain biking. Gary writes, "Regarding the so-called '77 Ritchey 650B bike on display at Interbike, "according to Joe Breeze and a few others, the frame set was actually built in 1980, most of the components were from 1985 or so, and the bike was originally built with drop bars. It was a touring bike; a nice one, but not a mountain bike, as Tom suggests, and certainly not in 1977."
But a tour has spice | gypsy by trade

Has the definitive "history of the mountain bike" been written? From what I have read, a number of people's names appear over and over, and in NorCal. As far as 650b, looks like Ritchey 1977 is false; Ritchey 1981 is credible. Whether Ritchey 1981 was first is unclear-- and who cares?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GrahamWallace · Jul 7, 2014

dwt said:
As far as 650b, looks like Ritchey 1977 is false; Ritchey 1981 is credible. Whether Ritchey 1981 was first is unclear-- and who cares?

As someone who writes about early mountain biking history any date that doesn't fit in with other pieces of historical evidence is interesting. In this case the evidence for an 1981 date is overwhelming whilst hard evidence for 1977 is non-existent. Meanwhile a growing number of stories supporting the 1977 date circulate on the internet and in cycling magazines. The latest of these says that the this bike was not made for John Finlay Scott as originally stated, but for a mystery British client. Yet again no evidence is offered but the source of this latest tale was apparently Sean Coffey at the Ritchey booth at Interbike.
Ritchey 650b, WCS Trail Carbon Bars and Stem | Mountain Bike Review

Other seemingly authoritative accounts say that this bike was "Ritchey's personal project before the term "mountain bike" ever existed".switchback - February/March 2014

Historically speaking, you are right in believing that who made the first 1970s/80s 650b mountain bike is unimportant. This is because these bikes died out and had no influence on the development of modern 650b bikes.

"Who Cares?"
Irrespective of the size of its wheels. If this bike could be proved to be from 1977, then every single history of the development of the first custom built mountain bikes, would need rewriting.

Hurricane Jeff · Jul 7, 2014

What made me suspicious of that bike being from 1977 was its construction, it was more advanced of any early (pre-1980) bike that Ive ever seen, the unicrown fork to me was a dead give away.
Im not saying that Tom Ritchey didn't think about using that size in 1977, but I believe that bike was not from that era.

Tom Ritchey's 1st mtb in 1977 was a 650b

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