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Why I hate horses

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#21 ·
Every user group is your enemy.

Every user group is your friend.

How you engage them and your resilience in engaging them will determine their long term impact on the goals and objectives you have for trails/access.

I have parks I work in where:
-MTB are the worst user group - riding in all conditions, especially freeze/thaw after snow & rain
-Dogs+Walkers are the worst user group - they destroy the understory in high traffic areas destabilizing river banks and have killed birds, fox cubs, and other wild life in preserves and have attacked/bitten other users... its not the dog though it is their walkers
-Hikers are the worst - trail braids and unwilling to use re-routes/open old lines
-Horses are the worst - they go wherever in whatever conditions and don't listen to pleas for responsible use or help while post-holing miles of trail

I do agree with ZRM, if we were a bit more responsible as a community we'd have more & better trail access. We are a new user group and even though we have just as many idiots as other user groups, our idiots get a disproportionate amount of the negative attention.

I see it at certain parks where the local community is super self conscious, the Land Managers ask for more guidance from MTB and consider us a favorite user type...
 
#24 ·
zrm said:
I've been around long enough to see quite clearly that MTBers can be their own worst enemy, especially when they blame everything that's a problem on everyone else but themselves.
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I have a slightly different take on this. Each group uses the worst case of the other for their argument. I can swap stupid dog walker-equestrian-hiker-runner-walker-mtb'ers stories ad nauseum. From that perspective I think it's a wash. I think it also important to appreciate that each user has a particular style of impact: a bike trail wears very differently than a hiker trail. That said, there are any number of studies concluding that feet and tires wear things about the same with throttled powered vehicles and horses being much harder on trails.

Our worst enemy from the start are the arcane regulations which did not include Mtb and have been used to keep them out as something given, and the attitudes applied to the support of such thinking. People did not want change or people simply wanted to exclude us to keep their experience the way they want it.

Two things have happened to change this:

1. many of those, people are simply aging out of their sport and society.

2. Our numbers have grown exponentially in the last 35 years, crossing many generations, and becoming a more accepted part of society.

Meatheads, however, still abound. Yet here we are and it is getting better.
 
#25 ·
The amount a damage a horse can inflict on a trail is so far beyond what a bike does it baffles me when comparisons are drawn between the two. Its like trying to have a logical discussion comparing the impact of a splattered egg vs an atomic blast.

Ever see an equestrian doing trail work?
 
#26 ·
What a hypocrite the OP is. People with horses, building trails, were here way before mountain bikers. If it wasn't for horses riding and making trails, the OP wouldn't have a cozy little home in UT. Just work around it OP, it's not that difficult. You have to share this planet with everyone.
 
#27 ·
^I'm perfectly willing to share the planet, just keep your horses off bike specific trails and other non-horse trails. There are lots of old trails around here that pre-date the horse in America. Using your logic horses should also be welcome on interstate highways and sidewalks. You sound like a motor head...
 
#28 ·
The OP said nothing about, " bike specific trails or non-horse trails". I'm left to assume that it's a trail open to both bikes and horses, because the OP did not say otherwise.

Don't you think it's quite a stretch for anyone to think that horses should be allowed on paved roads and sidewalks, using, "my logic"? I mean really, don't be stupid or try to make me look stupid. Horses were very instrumental in the colonization of the Western United States. So much so, that most of us with roots from the Western U.S., probably would never have been born if it weren't for that colonization. Horses were not instrumental in the development of modern paved roads, that we use today.
 
#31 ·
^I must say that I have no idea what you are saying here. Are you saying horses belong everywhere because a distant ancestor of yours rode in on one, or is it just the hate of them that you hate? As a trail manager, I'm not hating on horses, I'm just being realistic, a thing that seems to have evaded you. In my area wild horses were once a scourge that eventually had to be euthanized.
They destroyed a lot of beautiful country, just as cows have done and continue to do.
 
#33 ·
Mountain Cycle Shawn if you think riding a horse IS building a trail then we should give credit to deer, beaver, moose, elk, and buffalo. Currently (since the advent of the automobile) I see very little active SUSTAINABLE trail construction for multi use by the Equestrian Community (not some sort of parks department or government agency) built on public land. Yes Shawn you should give credit to the four legged predecessors but I do not see an active group of equestrians on the ground building and maintaining multi use trails. I do see equestrians absolutely roto tilling the fine work of our dedicated trail builders.
 
#35 ·
ABud said:
Mountain Cycle Shawn if you think riding a horse IS building a trail then we should give credit to deer, beaver, moose, elk, and buffalo. Currently (since the advent of the automobile) I see very little active SUSTAINABLE trail construction for multi use by the Equestrian Community (not some sort of parks department or government agency) built on public land. Yes Shawn you should give credit to the four legged predecessors but I do not see an active group of equestrians on the ground building and maintaining multi use trails. I do see equestrians absolutely roto tilling the fine work of our dedicated trail builders.
Click to expand...
Many trails in use today were made by settlers coming west years ago on horses. The western U.S. would have taken many more decades to settle if it weren't for horses. Back then horses were the only mode of transportation.

Listen, horses are never going to go away. The people who decide which trails we get to use will always side with the horse people over us. So, you can either learn to live with that fact and get along with them or you can decide not to live with it and continue to let it make you an angry person. It's your choice. I'm involved on both sides, So, I choose to get along and live with it. It's never bothered me to go down a bumpy trail, caused by horses.
 
#36 ·
The mountain biking community has been overburdened with trail sustainability requirements and mitigating environmental impact. The mountain bike community of trail builders have stepped up to meet these onerous challenges guided by the US Forrest Service and in large part IMBA who has improved, educated and advocated for low impact environmentally prudent trails. Understand I do not subscribe to most environmental doctrine but IMBA guides and oversees an army of us building mtb trails. We all are slowly gaining the confidence of pragmatic land managers. They (land managers) are beginning to see We (mtb trail builders) are putting forth a serious effort of our time and resources. In some cases they like the finished product. Some land managers recognize the destructive nature of a horse on a mtb/ hike trail and little effort from the equestrian community to build and maintain these multi use trails. It's this simple I don't build on existing horse trail, so horse rider stay off my trail. Times change MTB trail builders are becoming a large active force involved in the management of public land. I do not wish to see equestrians shut out of the land the way we are sometimes but they need to get involved and not expect the right to walk where ever they see fit.
 
#37 ·
ABud said:
The mountain biking community has been overburdened with trail sustainability requirements and mitigating environmental impact. The mountain bike community of trail builders have stepped up to meet these onerous challenges guided by the US Forrest Service and in large part IMBA who has improved, educated and advocated for low impact environmentally prudent trails. Understand I do not subscribe to most environmental doctrine but IMBA guides and oversees an army of us building mtb trails. We all are slowly gaining the confidence of pragmatic land managers. They (land managers) are beginning to see We (mtb trail builders) are putting forth a serious effort of our time and resources. In some cases they like the finished product. Some land managers recognize the destructive nature of a horse on a mtb/ hike trail and little effort from the equestrian community to build and maintain these multi use trails. It's this simple I don't build on existing horse trail, so horse rider stay off my trail. Times change MTB trail builders are becoming a large active force involved in the management of public land. I do not wish to see equestrians shut out of the land the way we are sometimes but they need to get involved and not expect the right to walk where ever they see fit.
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^^^This is really good.

To MCShawn, yes, horses have their place.
But in our area, what used to be horse trails are now main roads. Paved, with motor vehicle traffic, traffic signals, the whole 9 yards. And while yes, once in awhile a horse is seen being ridden down the road, they don't really belong there. They have every right to be there, and people accept that they can be there, but it's not the best place for them. It is the same with other trails and paths, with other users, with other conditions, etc. There is a better place for [insert user name here], built specifically for [same trail user], with features and construction that benefits both [same trail user] and the land manager and trail steward. Each user should accept that there are limitations imposed on them and they all need to respect those limits.

-F
 
#38 ·
I'd be cool with horse folk if they weren't so hypocritical. I've been yelled/cussed at more times than I count just for riding my bike near a horse. Usually, no matter my speed, I'm going too fast. I'm gonna spook their horse, they scream...as if screaming on the horse is gonna help calm it. I'm thinkin' if the horse is so skittish, maybe it should be trained before allowed on public trails or in public at all. It's not MY fault you're on a skittish horse. I used to go out of my way, stop, take off my lid, and wait for the horse to pass, but no more. My kindness isn't being returned from the horse community. I now treat them as hikers or other bikes...just another trail user with no special treatment. I tried.

But the hypocritical part is that they like to tell folks how we tear up trails. I'm lucky enough to have a great trail system right behind my house. I try to ride it every day. The first thing I do is sweep my loop. That is...whenever I encounter horse poop, I stop my ride, find a suitable stick, and sweep the poop off the trail. The horse users are supposed to do this, but they could care less. Another thing I do is stay off the trails 'till dry. Horsies don't get this. They'll ride in any conditions. It's then my job again to get back out there and run the trail 'till the ruts are gone...which takes a while and is kinda rough. When I'm done riding, as long as the horses don't come back, the trail is in perfect condition. That's how I damage trails...working the horse tracks back out of them.

I had a gun shown to me in Tennessee on coming upon a group on horses who told me I wasn't supposed to be there (I was). So there seems to be some pre-existing animosity among horse riders toward bikes and has been for quite a while. Most horse riders give me nasty looks just 'cause. I don't get the whole thing myself - how a horse rider can poo and track up trails then look at me like I'm the problem.

I'm just glad Colorado doesn't have the Tennessee problem - trail closures to most users except horses 'cause the horse folk have so much clout there. There are many trails in the Nashville area that have been closed to bikes, but horses are just fine. And yeah, they're in tip-top shape now. That was half the reason behind my move...so I could actually ride my bikes. Best decision I've ever made!
 
#39 ·
Since you asked...

Miker J said:
The amount a damage a horse can inflict on a trail is so far beyond what a bike does it baffles me when comparisons are drawn between the two. Its like trying to have a logical discussion comparing the impact of a splattered egg vs an atomic blast.

Ever see an equestrian doing trail work?
Click to expand...
Image

Here's a trail work day put on by an equestrian group at my local park; of the 18 or so volunteers this day, 4 or 5 were from the hiking community, I was the lone biker and the rest were "horse people".

Tell you what, my experience has been that, per capita, more hikers/horse folk will show up for a "biker" hosted TWD than the other way around. The "I hate horses" mantra is not a very good way to encourage mutual cooperation.

When it comes up to damaging trails, show me a dickwad equestrian and I'll show you a dickwad biker. Perfect storm for effin' up a wet trail??? Have 10 horses ride through followed by 10 bikers; horses loosen it up and bikers create the ruts. Guess who gets the blame?
Image


Where it comes to public land, if horse use can't be eliminated by regulation; either build the trails with proper technique (like with using gravel, puncheons, etc) or don't complain too vocally---it'll come back and bite the biking community in the ass.
 
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