To GG or not to GG, and if so which one, size, components???

Mtbkenny · Mar 28, 2019

Hi All,

I realize I'm posting this in the GG area so opinions will be a bit biased but I'm already leaning in that direction so I'm OK with that. Also seems to be a lot of knowledgeable bike folks here from the reading I've done.

Warning, LONG post -Short version - GG vs Kona Process/Hei hei and Trek Fuel EX8 and if GG Trail pistol vs. Smash

I am in the market to upgrade from My Rigid SS (Kona Unit) to a geared FS bike. Was initially gong to wait until next year for my 40th B-day but thinking of fast forwarding it to this year to possibly get it in time for a big vacation I have planned that will hopefully include 6-10 days of riding some new locations.

For the majority of riding I do I honestly think something like the Pedalhead would work, but I want to keep traveling in mind and I'm Also hoping the FS bike will be a little easier on my upper body, long rides leave my joints/wrists/grip pretty beat for a few days and as a carpenter that's not ideal!

I know pretty much nothing about Geometry, travel, tech, etc. when it comes to bikes which is why I'm looking for some thoughts/advice here. prior to learning about GG last Fall I'd been leaning towards a Kona bike just because I've liked my Unit so much. Was partially torn between the Process or Hei-hei not knowing how much suspension I wanted/needed.

Last two years I've also rented A trek Fuel EX8 and a Transition Patrol both of which I enjoyed; but without much to compare them too.

My riding here in Maryland is 80% pretty mild and the other 20% I don't ride as much just due to my set up. But I've been riding 5-10 days a year on vacation at some harder/gnarlier places and would like to continue to do that even more. Ideally I'd find a good all around bike for home and travel.

My initial thoughts are the Ride 2 Trail pistol which is still what I'm leaning towards, possibly with some upgraded MRP shocks.

But I've been reading around the boards here how well some of you say the Smash climbs and wondering - would that be more versatile for bigger trips and Ok for daily use or "too much bike" for 90% of my use and just take it easier next time I hit Something like Captain Ahab with a Trail Pistol or rent a bike again in that situation or whatever.

One consideration is my most common rides are rolling terrain or mostly flat, rarely around here do we have a big climb followed by a big down. Our hills just aren't that big. So I def prefer to run something that's all out all the time not like a back and forth switch on the shocks or lockout or whatever.

Size wise like many I'm a bit confused with the sizing even with the sizing tool. I'm 6' 2" 225 pounds but with a longer arm/torso and shorter legs. Been on XL Kona last 6 years. Their sizing has me at a 3 Long with "all around riding" but moves me to a 4 short if I switch to Full throttle so I'm kind of an in betweener?:madman:

I talked with Bobby at GG earlier in the week and he recommend the 4 short based on what I'm used to and size, which is the way I'm leaning myself....but there is a better chance I could get the 3 quicker since they are producing them now!! Though I don't want that to sway me since I'll keep the bike hopefully 5+ years, whether I get it for this particular trip or not isn't the end of the world.

Thanks if you read this Far!:thumbsup:

MTBK

stripes · Mar 28, 2019

I’ve ridden in your area, and I think you’d be fine with any bike you want. I ride a megatrail most of the time and that’s “overbiked” but I’m old and things take longer to recover from rides.

besides it’s still fun.

I also have a plus pedalhead. If you ride it as a plus bike, it would feel a lot easier on the joints than a non-plus 29er. I love the pedalhead. It’s my favorite hardtail I’ve ever owned. Seriously. Just can’t ride it as much as I’d like because the body doesn’t heal like it used to.

I think for a quiver killer you can’t go wrong with the Smash.

The one thing to know about GG bikes is they’re really versatile. You can do as much on the trail pistol as you can on the Smash or the pedalhead. It’s just a matter of what you’re looking for.

Donkeeboy · Mar 28, 2019

The Smash is a long wheelbase bike due to slack HTA, longish CS, and long reach, it's a 29er meant for going big and fast, so coming from a hardtail you may feel it's more bike than you want.

The Trail Pistol is a tad shorter due to shorter CS, steeper HTA, but the reach is the same for the same size frames; modular frames.

Which is best for you?

Do you really need a 29er in full suspension?

Would 27.5 be more fun when things do get tight?

Kaparzo · Mar 29, 2019

Have you ridden a dually in a long time? My advice would be to start with a shorter travel bike, if not. Going from a hardtail to what is basically an enduro bike is a big leap. The difference b/w trail bikes and enduro bikes is basically handling at speed and insurance on bigger hits/drops/jumps. You can still ride everything an enduro bike can, but eventually you may want more travel to do so faster/better.

Bought a Santa Cruz 5010 a few years ago after many years on a hardtail and it felt huge then. Made some serious progression and eventually decided I wanted a bigger bike (bought a Smash) to see if I could continue that progression but the bike wasn't holding me back.

vikb · Mar 29, 2019

Hey there MTBK. Glad we hooked you on the GG Kool Aid in Moab.

Given what you've posted I would get the Trail Pistol or the Shred Dogg. They will both rock the trails in the bigger mountains, but be more fun at home. The SD with 2.8" tires would split the difference pretty well between the smaller wheels of a "skinny" 27.5 and a "skinny" 29er. So that could be a nice mix for you.

I won't get involved with sizing beyond saying do whatever GG suggests!

All the GG build kits are solid. That said if you can upgrade the fork and shock that would be a sweet investment and would pay dividends for all your riding.

Kona makes fine bikes, but they've never really inspired me to give them any $$. Besides a car and a house my MTBs are my next biggest purchase so I want to be stoked about them. With GG you get made in 'Murica carbon and Devil's Horns thrown high.

Legbacon · Mar 29, 2019

When I plugged my height in, it was spot on for full throttle, so I trust their recommendations.

Curveball · Mar 29, 2019

I'll agree with Vik that something like the Trail Pistol would work very well for what you want. It would be a load of fun on your home trails and still have a lot of capability for bigger terrain. And if in the future you decide that you want a longer travel bike, then you can just get some Smash stays and shock. It's quite cool that with GG, you aren't really locked into one model of bike.

For you hands, I can't recommend the MRP Ribbon Coil fork enough. It's been a saving grace for my aging hands.

gregnash · Mar 29, 2019

I agree with everyone.. you can't go wrong with something like the TP or SD for what you are looking for. If you want to experiment slightly you can do so by overshocking the TP to 130mm (Pistola build) or you could go with a shorter stem on the larger size to bring feel in a bit.

When I was demoing these for sizing last year (on the aluminum bike) I tried a Medium Smash, thanks to Scott2MTB, and then later tried a Xtra-Medium Smash, thanks to Nurse_Ben. This was due to the fact that, similar to you, I am 6' tall with a long torso/arms and short inseam (6' tall, +1.5" apex index and 31" inseam) which kinda put me between a medium and large for the aluminum bikes. I fit just about exactly the same on both with some cockpit tweaking and both performed, to my seat of the pants feel, exactly the same. This lead me to the Size 3 sizing for my All Around riding style which I will run a 50mm stem in the short position. But should I need to, I can run something like a 35mm stem in the Long and cut the difference slightly, lots of playing around available.

Anyways, talk with GG, let them know what your working with and they won't steer you wrong. And even if they did happen to, I bet you anything they would probably work to make it right for ya!

ajdriscoll · Mar 29, 2019

I moved recently from the east coast to the Denver area and just got the smash. It would definitely be overkill for the east coast but I used to see SC nomads on XC loops so to each their own.

I am planning on picking up the seat stay kit to make the smash a trail pistol for east coast riding, which I think will be a perfect bike for the terrain. I went with an MRP ribbon air since you can adjust it from 130mm-160mm, so I will only need one fork.

Curveball · Mar 29, 2019

ajdriscoll said:
I moved recently from the east coast to the Denver area and just got the smash. It would definitely be overkill for the east coast but I used to see SC nomads on XC loops so to each their own.

I am planning on picking up the seat stay kit to make the smash a trail pistol for east coast riding, which I think will be a perfect bike for the terrain. I went with an MRP ribbon air since you can adjust it from 130mm-160mm, so I will only need one fork.

I'll just add that the Ribbon coil has a similar range of travel.

Mtbkenny · Mar 29, 2019

Woah, Thanks for all the reply's guys!

I'll do some individual responding but sounds like my initial gut towards Trail Pistol is probably correct.

In theory I get the Shredd Dogg is also shorter travel compared to the Mega-trail. Guess I've just assumed 29 in my head since I've been enjoying the 29 wheels last 6 years; albeit on a totally different type set-up.

Just based on GG's website descriptions of the Trail Pistol being for exploring miles of single track vs the Shred dogg turning your local trail into a pump track...my typical riding would be more suited to the TP.

Mtbkenny · Mar 29, 2019

stripes said:
I've ridden in your area, and I think you'd be fine with any bike you want. I ride a megatrail most of the time and that's "overbiked" but I'm old and things take longer to recover from rides. besides it's still fun.

I also have a plus pedalhead. If you ride it as a plus bike, it would feel a lot easier on the joints than a non-plus 29er. I love the pedalhead. It's my favorite hardtail I've ever owned. Seriously. Just can't ride it as much as I'd like because the body doesn't heal like it used to.

I think for a quiver killer you can't go wrong with the Smash.

The one thing to know about GG bikes is they're really versatile. You can do as much on the trail pistol as you can on the Smash or the pedalhead. It's just a matter of what you're looking for.

Yeah I guess any bike can work, just trying to find that sweet spot. Having fun and recovering faster sounds good to me! Only downside of being overbiked I'd say I'm more likely to knock out a 20+ mile ride then do a bunch of big drops on any given day so the pedaling efficiency of the Trail Pistol with slightly less suspensions sounds more suited.

The recovering is why I'm leaning towards the Full Suspension. I honestly think I'd enjoy the Pedalhead a ton but I'm only in the market for one bike so I want it to be versatile for vacation and home and want to get in more mid ride weeks instead of just weekends so being a little easier on the upper body would be a huge plus.

Yes I've seen the quiver killer phrase and the smash seems to fit, though it sounds like Trail pistol can do the same stuff maybe just a little slower. I'm not a speed demon at this point so maybe starting with the TP is a better fit.

Saw this reply this morning and was thinking about it at work, guess what I'm looking for is just to have fun on the bike as often as possible as many places as possible, and for as many years as possible!

Mtbkenny · Mar 29, 2019

Nurse Ben said:
The Smash is a long wheelbase bike due to slack HTA, longish CS, and long reach, it's a 29er meant for going big and fast, so coming from a hardtail you may feel it's more bike than you want.

The Trail Pistol is a tad shorter due to shorter CS, steeper HTA, but the reach is the same for the same size frames; modular frames.

Which is best for you?

Do you really need a 29er in full suspension?

Would 27.5 be more fun when things do get tight?

I got HTA meant head tube angle, took some googling to figure out what CS stood for...still don't know what any of it means or how it effects the bike but I know what he acronyms stand for at least!!

Don't know that I need a FS 29, just what I've been assuming based on my current 29 and the TP seems more geared to XC then the SD which is a high percentage of my home rides.

Looks like via thier website the reach is about 1/2 inch longer for the TP then the Smash, guessing due to angles, don't know.

My newb question is looks like the size 3 specs out similar to my current ride so maybe I don't need a 4 short. But do you typically want more/less reach for rigid vs Full Suspension or does that not matter?

As far as specs comparing size 3 TP and Smash vs my current Kona-

Bike	Wheelbase	Reach	Chain Saty
Kona	46.1	19	17.1
Size 3 TP	48.4	19.4	16.8
Smash 3	49.2	18.8	17.1

Khai · Mar 29, 2019

Based on your descriptions I'd have to say that I agree with the majority here - TP is probably best suited for your local riding scene, paired with a Ribbon Coil for your hand/wrist issues. (You could also look into RevGrips or Flexx bars)

If you travel occasionally it can handle damn near anything, but if you find yourself going big on a more regular basis then another shock and stay kit will get you a Smash for not a tonne more money.

Mtbkenny · Mar 29, 2019

Kaparzo said:
Have you ridden a dually in a long time?

My advice would be to start with a shorter travel bike, if not. Going from a hardtail to what is basically an enduro bike is a big leap. The difference b/w trail bikes and enduro bikes is basically handling at speed and insurance on bigger hits/drops/jumps. You can still ride everything an enduro bike can, but eventually you may want more travel to do so faster/better.

Bought a Santa Cruz 5010 a few years ago after many years on a hardtail and it felt huge then. Made some serious progression and eventually decided I wanted a bigger bike (bought a Smash) to see if I could continue that progression but the bike wasn't holding me back.

No, outside of these last two years renting a FS for a few days I've enver rideen or owned any.

Yeah I think the TP makes sense for a more gradual progression for sure. I'm not doing many big drops and really no jumps (though I'd like to start with the new rig) so don't need the insurance for that at this point.

Mtbkenny · Mar 29, 2019

vikb said:
Hey there MTBK. Glad we hooked you on the GG Kool Aid in Moab.

Ha, I'm a pretty easy mark

But yeah everyone seemed pretty pumped on the bikes out there and here on the boards, and just the internet in general it seems. Pretty positive reviews from what I've read.

As a small business owner myself it's pretty awesome what they are doing with the made in america, guerrilla marketing, etc. I'll admit I was a bit bummed on the Carbon at first since I wanted aluminum but the more I've researched and listened to podcasts and what not it sounds pretty legit.

Given what you've posted I would get the Trail Pistol or the Shred Dogg. They will both rock the trails in the bigger mountains, but be more fun at home. The SD with 2.8" tires would split the difference pretty well between the smaller wheels of a "skinny" 27.5 and a "skinny" 29er. So that could be a nice mix for you.

As stated previously, Trail Pistol makes more sense to me I think.

I won't get involved with sizing beyond saying do whatever GG suggests!

Oh c'mon man you know you want to get involved:thumbsup:

Bobby on the phones thought size 4 makes sense but their website says 3 long for all around and 4 short for full throttle, I'm more in the all around camp which would lean to size 3 long...just don't want to feel "cramped" I guess like the bear on the tricycle or like I'm hunched over but sounds like I won't be comparing specs to my current ride.

All the GG build kits are solid. That said if you can upgrade the fork and shock that would be a sweet investment and would pay dividends for all your riding.

Kona makes fine bikes, but they've never really inspired me to give them any $$. Besides a car and a house my MTBs are my next biggest purchase so I want to be stoked about them. With GG you get made in 'Murica carbon and Devil's Horns thrown high.

Yeah I'm pretty stoked on the coli tech from what I've been reading, and I like how you give them your weight and they base it on that. If the average Mountain biker is like 150-175 I want to be sure it's ready for my fat ass!

I chose Kona originally just because there were only so many people making mid quality SS bikes and my LBS carried them, then I really liked it so just figured I'd stick with them. Most of their focus seems more on the Process though which is full travel and If I'm going mid or short travel they have less options.

But yeah, pretty pumped on the customization aspects of GG along with the Murica.

Mtbkenny · Mar 29, 2019

Travis Bickle said:
When I plugged my height in, it was spot on for full throttle, so I trust their recommendations.

Trusting their configurator with an honest assessment of my riding (all around) puts me at size 3 which is the way I'm leaning.

Added benefit of a higher chance of getting that one before my trip!!

Mtbkenny · Mar 29, 2019

Curveball said:
I'll agree with Vik that something like the Trail Pistol would work very well for what you want. It would be a load of fun on your home trails and still have a lot of capability for bigger terrain. And if in the future you decide that you want a longer travel bike, then you can just get some Smash stays and shock. It's quite cool that with GG, you aren't really locked into one model of bike.

For you hands, I can't recommend the MRP Ribbon Coil fork enough. It's been a saving grace for my aging hands.

Thanks, looking like TP for sure. Most of my traveling is East Coast so still not super crazy. Last year in VT/NH kind of sucked with my bike because I had to walk some of the climbs and then ride brakes for chunks of the downhill. even with a front shock on a hard tail I could of had way more fun. Part of my reasoning for the Rigid SS originally was just budget and testing to make sure I'd enjoy the sport. now that i really like i I'm ready to commit some more funds.

Thanks for the recommendation, I'm a little paranoid about long term or carpal tunnel type issues affecting my livelihood and recreation so want to start being more careful now.

On thier build it looks like the only offer the Ribbon Air, will they let you swap in the Ribbon Coil instead?

Mtbkenny · Mar 29, 2019

gregnash said:
I agree with everyone.. you can't go wrong with something like the TP or SD for what you are looking for. If you want to experiment slightly you can do so by overshocking the TP to 130mm (Pistola build) or you could go with a shorter stem on the larger size to bring feel in a bit.

When I was demoing these for sizing last year (on the aluminum bike) I tried a Medium Smash, thanks to Scott2MTB, and then later tried a Xtra-Medium Smash, thanks to Nurse_Ben. This was due to the fact that, similar to you, I am 6' tall with a long torso/arms and short inseam (6' tall, +1.5" apex index and 31" inseam) which kinda put me between a medium and large for the aluminum bikes. I fit just about exactly the same on both with some cockpit tweaking and both performed, to my seat of the pants feel, exactly the same. This lead me to the Size 3 sizing for my All Around riding style which I will run a 50mm stem in the short position. But should I need to, I can run something like a 35mm stem in the Long and cut the difference slightly, lots of playing around available.

Anyways, talk with GG, let them know what your working with and they won't steer you wrong. And even if they did happen to, I bet you anything they would probably work to make it right for ya!

Could I go longer stem on the longer setting to stretch it a bit too then I guess if I go with the 3? Like if I ran a 60MM industry 9 A35 is that lengthening my reach over the stock 50 or a 35? Still trying to decipher what all these components do and measurements mean:madman:

So did you end up ordering one of the new Carbons then?

I will talk to GG probably next week or two, gotta sleep on it a bit more and wrap my head around dropping ~$5K on a bike

Mtbkenny · Mar 29, 2019

ajdriscoll said:
I moved recently from the east coast to the Denver area and just got the smash. It would definitely be overkill for the east coast but I used to see SC nomads on XC loops so to each their own.

I am planning on picking up the seat stay kit to make the smash a trail pistol for east coast riding, which I think will be a perfect bike for the terrain. I went with an MRP ribbon air since you can adjust it from 130mm-160mm, so I will only need one fork.

Yeah I see people with overkill bikes a bunch too, depends on the taste I guess. One thing I'm hoping to do with the new bike is join in some group rides to meet some new bikers in the area. I went on a few last year but it was kind of a pain in the ass with my bike - I pass them on the uphills, they pass me on the downhills, repeat. I feel like I'm a pretty competent rider and not afraid of going fast from my old dirt biking days but with no shocks I get bounced around like crazy if I can't choose my lines pretty carefully so trough to ride in a close pack with folks on FS bikes.

Yeah I was looking at the ribbon for the adjustability. Is that something where you tell them how to set it up or you do it yourself?

I'll just add that the Ribbon coil has a similar range of travel.

thanks, I'll def look into that coil, hopefully it's something GG will offer.

To GG or not to GG, and if so which one, size, components???

Mtbkenny

stripes

Donkeeboy

Kaparzo

vikb

Legbacon

Curveball

gregnash

ajdriscoll

Curveball

Mtbkenny

Mtbkenny

Mtbkenny

Khai

Mtbkenny

Mtbkenny

Mtbkenny

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