Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone!

I hope you can help me...

Right now I have Mavic xc 717/Sapim CX-RAY/Hope Pro 2 wheelset.
As replacement for 717 I just ordered Stan's ZTR 355 rims.
Will I able to use new rims without changing the spokes?

Thnx for answers!
 

·
A wheelist
Joined
·
5,991 Posts
Only if the rims' ERD measurements (effective rim diameters) are the same. That's very unlikely. You need to measure the rims or rely on the measurements provided by others (!)
 

·
A wheelist
Joined
·
5,991 Posts
violent said:
Measurements are (web source!):
Mavic xc 717 - 538,5
ZTR 355 - 540
Is there any chance anyway? :rolleyes:
Run those numbers (if you trust them :) ) through a calculator and see what the difference in spoke lengths actually is.

As this is a diameter and we deal in spokes that are a radius length, the difference might be just 1mm. I dunno. Then, depending on the rounding of the numbers, you might be ok.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,243 Posts
I think the ERD on the Mavic XC 717 is 542mm according to the DT Swiss spoke calc. There may be a chance it'll work.

Where do the spoke heads sit in the nipples of your wheelset currently?
 

·
A wheelist
Joined
·
5,991 Posts
bholwell said:
I think the ERD on the Mavic XC 717 is 542mm according to the DT Swiss spoke calc. There may be a chance it'll work.
Oh now he has TWO ERD measurements. It reminds me of the old saying -

"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."

I'll say it for the millionth time - people should do their own hub and rim measurements. Then they have only themselves to blame.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
697 Posts
On the technical specifications, they say that the xc717 has a "spoke support diameter" of 538,5 for the disc version, and 538 for the regular version. Don't know if that includes the depth of a spokenipple...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
351 Posts
violent said:
Hi everyone!

I hope you can help me...

Right now I have Mavic xc 717/Sapim CX-RAY /Hope Pro 2 wheelset.
As replacement for 717 I just ordered Stan's ZTR 355 rims.
Will I able to use new rims without changing the spokes?
Check your existing build, did the original builder use the correct length spokes in the first place? With CX-Rays in 2mm increments he may have compromised.

I get the 717 ERD to be 541mm and the 355 to be 543mm meaning the spokes on the 355 are 1mm longer than the 717. If the spokes in the original build are up to the top surface of the nipple then you'll be fine. If they are short then it will be troublesome to build but since they are $$$ CX-Ray's it's worth giving it a go.

Roger

Edit : This is essentially what bholwell said 18 hours earlier.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
450 Posts
Just to clarify - how old are your current wheels?

Ideally with a new wheelbuild you will want to use new spokes, depending on what sort of quality you're building too of course.

Don't put heaps of trust on the DT Spoke Calculator, especially for non-DT branded components, we have found that they consistently punch out calcs for longer spokes than what is required.

I just got some 717s in Non-Disc and the measured ERD is 538mm, when the DT site suggested 542mm - be careful!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Little Willy said:
Just to clarify - how old are your current wheels?

Ideally with a new wheelbuild you will want to use new spokes, depending on what sort of quality you're building too of course.

Don't put heaps of trust on the DT Spoke Calculator, especially for non-DT branded components, we have found that they consistently punch out calcs for longer spokes than what is required.

I just got some 717s in Non-Disc and the measured ERD is 538mm, when the DT site suggested 542mm - be careful!
Spokes & hubs only have 50-60 miles....almost new.
Mavic XC717 rims are used (1,5 year old).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,243 Posts
violent said:
Spokes & hubs only have 50-60 miles....almost new.
So have you given it a try yet? Were you able to reuse your CX-rays?

Or do you have a box full of expensive, barely used spokes? (I hope not.)
 

·
transmitter~receiver
Joined
·
9,333 Posts
Little Willy said:
Just to clarify - how old are your current wheels?

Ideally with a new wheelbuild you will want to use new spokes, depending on what sort of quality you're building too of course.
Not necessarily... though it is always the safe answer (and thus that usually offered by retailers) it is not always the smartest.
Little Willy said:
Don't put heaps of trust on the DT Spoke Calculator's database, especially for non-DT branded components, we have found that they consistently punch out calcs for longer spokes than what is required.
Fixed. The calculator runs simple trigonometry. Bad info in=bad info out. Mavic has a history of seemingly willful insistence on making it difficult to build with their rims by using a different standard (spoke support diameter) than everyone else that also has no direct relevance in the spoke length calculation. another example is that their tech website's spoke calculator uses a locknut-to-flange dimension, which is also different than what everyone else uses (center-to-flange) and also has no relevance in the spoke calculation (it mus first be converted to center-to-flange). I would not put confidence in any 'measurement' I read off of a computer screen. At least DT explains how to accurately measure your rims in the 'Help' page clickable from the spoke calculator. Mavic gives you bad info w/no explanation and when I called them about the ERD for the TN719, which the tech read off of a computer screen, he told me that the DT Swiss spoke calculator is "wrong." :nono:
Little Willy said:
I just got some 717s in Non-Disc and the measured ERD is 538mm, when the DT site suggested 542mm - be careful!
It appears that you incorrectly measured ERD. I'm saying this based on Roger's (a seasoned and published wheelbuilding pro) measurement, the fact that Mavic's numbers are consistently short, and that you report exactly what Mavic has on the tech website. Read the instructions for measuring rims on Roger's website by clicking the 'measure' tab here. You can also read instructions consistent with his on the DT Swiss 'Help' page I mentioned above or on Sheldon Brown's website here. Mavic's numbers are consistently short, though not by a consistent amount. It can be as much as 5mm (e.g., the TN719s I built measured at 603mm while Mavic reports 598mm).
 

·
transmitter~receiver
Joined
·
9,333 Posts
fernandoj said:
So... Mavic 717xc (non disc version) ERD is 541mm, 542mm, 538mm or 538,5mm?
538mm & 538.5mm are both from Mavic and therefore, both incorrect. It's widely known that Mavic's numbers are consistently short for use with spoke calculators. That's why the DT Swiss spoke caclulator explain that and instructs users to add 4-5mm to any numbers obtained from Mavic (on the 'Help' page). So that knocks it down to two. The difference in calculated spoke length if you use 541 or 542 is 0.5mm (no big deal). Measuring a rim probably has an accuracy of +/- 1mm. So, use either, or use 541.5mm and your spokes will work. Problem solved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
524 Posts
Did the direct switch ever work?

I've got some XTR M950 hubs I'm lacing and I have the spokes and nipples from a Mavic 517 (xc717 basically). I'm going to try, but some real-world experience would be nice.
 

·
West Chester, PA
Joined
·
4,994 Posts
I recently re-laced a set of wheels from mavic 717 disc to stans arch. The ERDs i found in my research were 538.5 mavic and 540 stans. Everything came out perfect. I did use new nipples though, for a color change primarily.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top