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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When I picked up my new 08' Spot frame the other day I saw a Foes XCT5 frame at the shop.
Since then it I cant help thinking maybe I should return the 5 Spot and pick up that XCT.
Why ? I don't know. I never even heard anything about that frame before.
Of course this ain't the most objective place to ask but after all I am looking for some support because I DO want to hang on to the Spot but need to stop thinking of what I may have missed out.
Thanks
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I owned a foes fxr 2:1 the first year they came out. It was a solid frame but it was heavy, the curnutt shocked had a clunk sound, and Foes customer service left me a little jaded. They never did me any wrong but were far from receptive. Dealing with Turner couldn't get easier as they are always available.
 

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Lay off the Levers
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Photo from Bikeradar.com review


Interesting design. Is this single swingarm design similar to the Heckler and Bullet? According to ther review it's aimed squarely at the Spot in build weight and style. Can you use other shocks with this or is it committed to only Curnuts?

As far as customer service is concerned, check this out:
(posted by DT on New Years Day)
turnerbikes said:
So, orangerider, I will get a part or 2 out to you tommorow if we can get in touch today. I am not sure if we have any Horst Link type chainstays, but I can check the trade in rack. If not, TNT. Drop me a line at [email protected] and we can get this worked out, if you are in SoCal, we can meet at the warehouse today or tomorrow and that will put you on the bike before the weekend.

DT
 

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Pizzaman - If you are questioning your decision after already purchasing the Turner, I am not sure that you really understand the value of owning a Turner. In any event, here a few reasons:

1. Go back and read the Turner reviews...5-10 times the number of reviews for the 5 spot over the entire Foes line.
2. Superior customer service
3. Superior resale value, bigger buyer pool.
4. Bushings with zerk fittings over Bearings
5. Mainstream rear shock that is serviceable (i.e. Push et.al.) over proprietary rear shock
6. More refined and sophisticated design and R&D

I am sure that several others will chime in with compelling reasons. Good luck ride the bike, you will not regret your decision.

CDIDriver

PizzaMan said:
When I picked up my new 08' Spot frame the other day I saw a Foes XCT5 frame at the shop.
Since then it I cant help thinking maybe I should return the 5 Spot and pick up that XCT.
Why ? I don't know. I never even heard anything about that frame before.
Of course this ain't the most objective place to ask but after all I am looking for some support because I DO want to hang on to the Spot but need to stop thinking of what I may have missed out.
Thanks
PM
 

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trail fairy
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Youv'e got magpie itis :eek:

After that wears off and ya find out she's no good in the sack her looks aren't gonna be so good just think about that for awhile!

While the Spot hasn't always found the perfect 10 for everyone you'll find most here say time after time the more time with her the better she gets and only after more years does it get better, that's why they're so hard to let go, its not all about whats on the outside its what she hides under her skirts and saves for the rainy days, it's her pixie dust, that can't be seen but has to be discovered to be understood, only a long termer can understand what it is to be a Turner owner!

Your call but I think you will get this remorse down the track again if you change again and then what will you do, it will be even worse, hard call when you're stuck between too, usually it all goes to pear shape! I learnt a hard lesson a long time ago when I had to choose never think of both take the one in your heart and delete the other fast there is no other!

Good luck dude :thumbsup:
 

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I had a tough time choosing btw the Spot and another bike way back in '03

Make pro/con comparison list for each bike and put everything you can think on it. Even if it's the redundant opposite of the other. It sounds academic but it'll help you get in touch with what you really want. By the time you're done you'll have a better idea what your heart wants and if that meets your logic.

Spot Pros vs. Foes Pros

Spot Cons vs. Foes Cons

Do it yourself, on paper so you can be honest and blunt w/o having to deal with replies and opinions.

For me I really wanted a bike I thought was much hotter looking. But the cust service and the active & informative userbase brought me onboard, and I never regretted it. Time showed me it was a better decision both technical & performance wise for a dozen reasons beyond service.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
CDIDriver said:
Pizzaman - If you are questioning your decision after already purchasing the Turner, I am not sure that you really understand the value of owning a Turner. In any event, here a few reasons:

1. Go back and read the Turner reviews...5-10 times the number of reviews for the 5 spot over the entire Foes line.
2. Superior customer service
3. Superior resale value, bigger buyer pool.
4. Bushings with zerk fittings over Bearings
5. Mainstream rear shock that is serviceable (i.e. Push et.al.) over proprietary rear shock
6. More refined and sophisticated design and R&D

I am sure that several others will chime in with compelling reasons. Good luck ride the bike, you will not regret your decision.

CDIDriver
Thanks Guys,
Don't know what I was thinking, but soon after posting it went away!
This 08' is my 3rd(!) 5 Spot. One was 04' Sold it for an Intense 5.5 which I did not like and soon sold that one and bought a 2005 Spot again. That lasted for almost 3 years and lived in peace with my later added to the stable Nomad. When it came to parting with one I sold the 5 Spot but soon after 3 months using the Nomad as my only bike I realized I have made a mistake. So bye bye Nomad hello 08' Sangria Spot.
I guess I never learn, always looking for dumb adventures.
This Spot is a keeper and will be built up A.S.A.P
Thanks again
PM
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Bikezilla said:
I had a tough time choosing btw the Spot and another bike way back in '03

Make pro/con comparison list for each bike and put everything you can think on it. Even if it's the redundant opposite of the other. It sounds academic but it'll help you get in touch with what you really want. By the time you're done you'll have a better idea what your heart wants and if that meets your logic.

Spot Pros vs. Foes Pros

Spot Cons vs. Foes Cons

Do it yourself, on paper so you can be honest and blunt w/o having to deal with replies and opinions.

For me I really wanted a bike I thought was much hotter looking. But the cust service and the active & informative userbase brought me onboard, and I never regretted it. Time showed me it was a better decision both technical & performance wise for a dozen reasons beyond service.
Yup. Gotta agree with every word !
 

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trail fairy
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Geezus! someone order a pepperoni one cheese ztraLARGE and slap Pizzaman 3 times for 3 times still not getting it, straying and being unfaithful LOL but coming home and then I'm guessing this time is DWL time man



Good to see ya come to ya senses I thought you were a noob but geez! Dude you need more theraphy in 09 and I prescribe MOAR ride time :thumbsup:
 

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Lay off the Levers
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LOL Pizza, you better get your meds verified. You can answer this question better than most of us! :D

Nothing wrong with wanting to see what other flavors taste like.
 

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We rode one of those at the 07 Interbike dirt demo. In a word: barf.

tscheezy said:
Foes XCT:
A very harsh riding suspension. The air Curnutt shock was not compliant at all despite the tech at the Foes booth saying there was "zero stiction" with the seals (which were leaving black streaks on the shaft by the end of the ride). The shock and linkage were very linear feeling and quite easy to bottom out despite not offering much in the way of compliance around sag. None of us really enjoyed the suspension/shock characteristics of this bike. The handling was surprisingly quick and steep for a 6" travel trailbike. It may have benefitted from a fork a bit longer and plusher than the 140mm Fox. The rear end was just very harsh and I will admit we didn't take a lot of time to fiddle with the SPV valve pressure since the tech at the Foes booth had done it for us specifically when I discussed the bike's setups and adjustments. It is a stout rig and well thought out, but I would be very concerned being limited to the proprietary dampers based on this experience.
 

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It's not similar to the bullitt and heckler, as the foes is a low single pivot rear triangle design, with a swing linkage in place to reduce side loading on the shock.

Some models now offer mountings for conventional shocks. Wonder how this one would do with a DHX or otherwise.
 

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Toss up

I've never ridden a TNT Spot or an XCT5 but I've owned 3 Foes (still own 2) and 2 Turners(still own those as well; yeah I'm a bike whore) and I've had stellar customer service from both, although it's been on a more personal level with DT.
My 2 current, alternating bikes dependant on ride type are a 27 lb 03 5 Spot for more xc rides and a 32 lb Foes FXR, which beat out my old Horst link 6 pack for freeride duty because of the way it pedals and corners.
My first high end bike was a Foes Weasel which I bought 5 years out of warranty and broke it. I asked if they could fix it and add disk brake mounts. After a fire at the shop and weeks of thought they said no, but we will sell you a crash replacement then new Fly for 1/2 price; hell yes I said. After a year it cracked and I was riding my new frame within 3 days of calling them. Great experience for me.
DT gave me replacement rockers because I asked if he could sell me a set that would slacken my bike (which was his personal ride at one point.)
I will say that you probably paid one hell of a lot less for the Spot than you would for the XCT5, and as was said above the XCT5 weighs in at a heafty 8.5 lbs with a steel sprung Curnut, the Ti Spring loses some ounces but adds about $250, The curnut air is way lighter than the coil but so is your wallet after buying one. The cheap option is the DHX air which brings the price down to a few hundred less than a DW Spot and is even lighter than the Curnut air. Though heavy I'll say that my FXR pedals lighter than 32 lbs but it doesn't change the fact that it is heavier.
I think you should (unlike me) just ride with the killer Spot you have, cus once you start down the slippery upgraditis road you, like me, will need a bedroom just for bikes, and be far poorer than you are now:D
 

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Maybe foes has improved, but the Curnutt was a turd when I had an FXR, and the rest of the bike, while designed to be stiff, wasn't necessarily designed well.

The curnutt was crap compared to everything else out there. It was crap compared to my previous shocks, and everything I've tried since. There is way too much damping and it feels like a jackhammer in a rockgarden. It seriously felt like my bike was about to snap in half going down rockgardens at high speed. Kind of hard to explain, but the SPV stuff that Foes uses can never compete with a decent shock like a DHX or other similer shock. The valving ignores inputs below a certain threshold, and simply doesn't provide the necessary high-speed oil flow to make it "work" well. You'll often see lots of rationalization about this from foes owners ("oh, it's a little firm, but I like it that way"), but believe me there is far better stuff out there. I sent it to foes a few times complaining of the extremely slow rebound, the rebound clunk, and every time it was found to be operating "correctly". I even had them rebuild it the last time, only to find out that it still worked the same as ever. Bottom line, there are far better suspension systems and shocks out there. I think Foes bought into the curnutt/progressive thing and that they have a pretty big stake in it, so they are kind of forced to use the technology. I was pretty pissed I spent $550 on that crap-ass shock.

The frame was laterally stiff, but the scissor-linkage used a very long and very tiny bolt. It went through the entire linkage and the shock (around 4-5" or so of length) and was prone to bending. It was rediculous to have such a small and long bolt running through the entire thing.

Foes seems to be pretty stubborn with their suspension system and especially their shocks. I would never consider them unless they changed this attitude. The bottom line is that there's better performing stuff out there. I didn't just ride a DW turner one day and start pushing that design, I rode the DW link far before that time, and there are lots of other designs that work far better than anything equipped with a curnutt shock. These days you'll actually struggle to find something that performs as poorly in the suspension department IMO.

The curnutt shock *looks* impressive, but that's about it. Most everything else out there is better. The 2:1 thing is kind of a farce as well, it means that bearing drag will have a greater effect, and it means that you have to use an absolutely massive (and that means heavy) shock.

One last note, foes don't tend to work so hot with other-than curnutt shocks. Sometimes they offer an "option", but that doesn't even mean it works well. My FXR came with a vanilla RL, and that damn thing didn't work for crap due to the excessive falling-rate of the design (you either ride it oversprung to avoid bottomouts, or undersprung to actually allow the suspension to do something). I eventually got a DHX coil on there (after the curnutt) and cranked up the bottom-out adjuster, but slapping on any-old shock definitely doesn't work due to the excessive falling-rate designs that they use and the eye-to-eye of the curnutt shocks. You're basically riding some funky leverage curve that may not work with non-oem shock.
 

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Possible

I had the same opinion out of the Curnut when I picked it up but after sending it back to foes for a PLUSH rebuild it works better than pushed or propedal FOx shocks or my 4 way air. But Jayem just might not be a Curnut guy.
 

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slowrider said:
But Jayem just might not be a Curnut guy.
Well, I tried to be, but when you send it back 3x to try and have it "fixed" as you describe, it's another reason to go with a different company. I tried 1 curnutt that felt pretty decent at one time, but why the huge disparity in the shocks? No quailty control at all? Valving them to be jackhammers for everyone else? A change in technology? Not sure, but it doesn't inspire any confidence.
 

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trail fairy
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I don't know much about em, some mags rave about em, the frames always seem to be a love hate thing with people, I like the look of some and can appreciate the fabrication side of it I guess but things have moved on!

They have there niche though and that's cool so we shouldn't shoot that down for Foes loyalist's power to them and I respect that, I know a couple of guys here who rip on Fly's and go big ride well great DH results, same in DH on the Mono in fact Mono's seem to get great results here in DH, course we have some real natural courses steep no real grooming especially down south!

Kiwi's also love bikes that don't need much attention! or can tough it out, even if pivots take a beating as long as the frames hang in there so the big Foes seem to have a base I know the wee Foes have had issues here though and so has CS, things may have changed, I don't get caught up in all that so its more hear say than fact! but the boys I do know are very pro Foes!

The Mono sticks out to me, its not my type of rig but I can appreciate it for what it is a bloody beast with its XTD and Curnut shock ti springs and all and the dude I know his is all black so totally bad ass head to toe and hes dominated the Vet calls all year, when last year the Sundays ruled, this year his SP has cleaned up, though seems there is a lack of numbers this year 2! Still results say wins!

So back to top post, its still Spot for me, but I won't nock the bigger picture! but get what the boys are saying, though to be fair I don't see it any different to AVY or Cane Creek as long as the support is there is no more propriety than they are!

Unbiased view :thumbsup:
 

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I know what you're saying

I felt the same way about the 5th element air, which is what the Curnut reminded me of until I had it rebuilt. I might have gotten lucky with mine but I asked them to do what they could to make it more plush. The reciept said they did 4 things to make it more plush and it worked for me.
I will say that I like to try different shocks and rockers on my bikes and that is much more expensive with the Foes, and with fewer options. My Spot has had coils from Romic and a Pushed Fox, along with air shocks like the Maintou 3 and 4 way and a pushed AVA. The options on the Foes are limited to the Curnut, Romic (if you can get one) and an AVY which are all pricy.
Jayem said:
Well, I tried to be, but when you send it back 3x to try and have it "fixed" as you describe, it's another reason to go with a different company. I tried 1 curnutt that felt pretty decent at one time, but why the huge disparity in the shocks? No quailty control at all? Valving them to be jackhammers for everyone else? A change in technology? Not sure, but it doesn't inspire any confidence.
 
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