XTR fail ( for me, at least)
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It really is as ugly as the spy shots showed it to be a couple of months ago.
I'm sure it all works great, well except maybe the chainring design(not yet proven to retain), but I am mostly disappointed that what they seem to be saying is that anyone who wants a wide range 1x system is basically underinformed. I read the pinkbike release and apparently Shimano made a whole presentation as to why they think 2x and 3x is better for us riders than we know. Patronize much? Each system has plusses and minuses and those are often different for different riders in different terrain, but to make it seem like SRAM's current offerings aren't a real alternative is all kinds of obtuse.
I currently ride Shimano 2x10, but XX1 or some hybrid 1x mix is probably going to be my next drivetrain. I was waiting to see how this stuff hashed to make up my mind, now I can eliminate pretty much everything that they just announced.
I'm sure it all works great, well except maybe the chainring design(not yet proven to retain), but I am mostly disappointed that what they seem to be saying is that anyone who wants a wide range 1x system is basically underinformed. I read the pinkbike release and apparently Shimano made a whole presentation as to why they think 2x and 3x is better for us riders than we know. Patronize much? Each system has plusses and minuses and those are often different for different riders in different terrain, but to make it seem like SRAM's current offerings aren't a real alternative is all kinds of obtuse.
I currently ride Shimano 2x10, but XX1 or some hybrid 1x mix is probably going to be my next drivetrain. I was waiting to see how this stuff hashed to make up my mind, now I can eliminate pretty much everything that they just announced.
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The new XTR system appears to be what I have been looking for in a drivetrain. Too bad I wont be able to afford it. The fact that it uses a standard hub will pretty much kill SRAM's 1x11 or at least force their hand to offer their system for less.
If you are concerned about looks then I think you will feel at home HERE.
If you are concerned about looks then I think you will feel at home HERE.
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It will push SRAM to make a wide range cassette that fits normal hub bodies and costs under $200, everybody wins.
It might even push SRAM to make a wide cassette under $150, since XTR 10sp cassettes can be had for roughly $160 here in Euroloand even with a fat chunk of tax in the price.
Looks very good to me, logical improvement, options for everybody as opposed to SRAMs our way or nothing approach. I'm looking forward to the XT/SLX version especially once they arrive.
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It actually looks like a fantastic group to me. The new brakes are stunning First Look: All-New Shimano XTR M9000 Race & Trail Brakes, Plus New Carbon Wheels, the cranks ditto, the single chain ring offers a different take to retain the chain. What you don't like? Just not having a 10 cog that requires a completely different standard for a trivial gain in respect to a 11 one?
Taken single a 1140 cassette looses less than one gear in respect to 1042, combine it with a dual chain ring plus the completely redesigned front derailleur (100 gr!) and you have a massive range that a single will never be able to approach. SRAM 1042 benefits from a lot of misinformation and marketing, I would not be surprised if 1140 will wipe it out in a few years.
Taken single a 1140 cassette looses less than one gear in respect to 1042, combine it with a dual chain ring plus the completely redesigned front derailleur (100 gr!) and you have a massive range that a single will never be able to approach. SRAM 1042 benefits from a lot of misinformation and marketing, I would not be surprised if 1140 will wipe it out in a few years.
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True. But one has to upgrade the whole drivetrain to get that range, which is completely unnecessary. I'd rather see them release an 1140 cassette in 10 speeds, which would work just as well without having to spend a grand. From a 1x standpoint, they're missing the boat completely. 1140 with a 30T upfront is not useful for the average week end warrior when climbing long steep hills. That being said, I'm sure they'll sell a boat load of it.
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Completely agree, a 1140 cassette 10 speed would be ideal ... but not so "exciting" for a new XTR I guess. Let's see what they do with XT and lower lines.
BTW: I have 1136 x 30 and it works very well, 40 x 30 is quite low (it is equivalent to an old triple 22 front by 28 rear), and it not really distinguishable from 42 x 30. So I see their point: if you need lower gear go dual ... (or get a 28 chain ring somewhere).
BTW: I have 1136 x 30 and it works very well, 40 x 30 is quite low (it is equivalent to an old triple 22 front by 28 rear), and it not really distinguishable from 42 x 30. So I see their point: if you need lower gear go dual ... (or get a 28 chain ring somewhere).
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Actually, SRAM will be forced to do nothing until after this group is released and then they can wait another year later when the affordable XT version is released and then wait some more until Shimano proves to have won back market/mind share. In the meantime, I imagine SRAM are still feeling pretty relieved that their drivetrain offers a unique departure from what Shimano is doubling down on. So essentially they can look at this not really as competition at all until it actually proves to be.
As far as calling me a roadie for commenting on the looks.... well that really, super, duper, duper, duper, hurts my feelings.
And If you are implying that design/aesthetic doesn't matter in the salability of ultra-high end mountain bikes then you are more naive than your comments lead one to believe.
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If you aren't fast on the Shimano 1x11 set up, you wont be fast on the SRAM equivalent.
A bike's gearing will not make you a better rider, no matter how many or how little gears you have.
Debating ratios means absolutely nothing once you get on the trail.
Just ride what you have and don't worry about it.
And I'm still on 1x10 with a chain guide, 32 up front and 36 in the rear. Works fine for me, might not work fine for you. That's fine, but I'll never say I didn't make a climb or obstacle because of my drivetrain.
A bike's gearing will not make you a better rider, no matter how many or how little gears you have.
Debating ratios means absolutely nothing once you get on the trail.
Just ride what you have and don't worry about it.
And I'm still on 1x10 with a chain guide, 32 up front and 36 in the rear. Works fine for me, might not work fine for you. That's fine, but I'll never say I didn't make a climb or obstacle because of my drivetrain.
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Looks like a pretty decent step forward to me. I'm just commenting on the 1x aspect of things. The 1140 should have plenty of range for the average rider. I don't know why you think there isn't enough range. 30x40 is tall? Really? I don't have huge extended climbs near me, so maybe I have a different perspective. We do have some really steep climbs and I can crawl up anything with the 32x42, which should be similar to 30x40. (I didn't plug those into a gear calculator, so maybe I'm wrong) I also wouldn't call myself a weekend warrior.
I like the fact that it fits a regular hub, plenty of range IMO, my question is how well the retention is on the single ring. I'd have to imagine Shimano tested it pretty thoroughly, but time will tell. Sucks that you need a new chain and rings, I agree a 10 spd wide range cassette would rock.
I like the fact that it fits a regular hub, plenty of range IMO, my question is how well the retention is on the single ring. I'd have to imagine Shimano tested it pretty thoroughly, but time will tell. Sucks that you need a new chain and rings, I agree a 10 spd wide range cassette would rock.
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I got plenty of 4-5 miles climb and a few longer than that. I'm not a strong rider, so 30x40 (equivalent to 22x28 roughly) would not cut it for me. I need my granny gear. For fit riders, it's probably just fine. Regardless, the One Up/Wolftooth/General Lee aftermarket parts give you exactly the same range (or better) at a fraction of the cost. I don't see much value in an extra cog. SRAM must be excited about the news. Their XX1 is safe as the reference in 1x drivetrains.
I don't know what the point of an 11 speed cassette is if you don't have the 10 tooth cog to increase the range. Why not just do a 10 speed 11-40? Because then consumers might not need a new derailleur and shifter too. A 10 speed 11-40 would be just like a 9 speed that you added a 40 tooth cog onto, and that would be plenty of gear choices for me.
Hopefully someone makes this happen.
Hopefully someone makes this happen.
After getting XX1 on my bike I was a bit worried I jumped the gun. I feel better now, but I can see the merits of the 11-40 because there is a significant jump in rpms which can be noticeable.
On race day I think XTR 11-40 with a thoughtfully selected chainring would be better.
For my trail bike and daily use I like my 38x 10-42 because I can do low RPM power intervals or make the steepest climbs and not change anything.
The hub thing on the high end doesn't even matter because king is finally offering a xD driver. I suspect sole held out because of that - and somehow there may be a SRAM rep happy happy because of the king driver and shimano's not so widen range product.
On race day I think XTR 11-40 with a thoughtfully selected chainring would be better.
For my trail bike and daily use I like my 38x 10-42 because I can do low RPM power intervals or make the steepest climbs and not change anything.
The hub thing on the high end doesn't even matter because king is finally offering a xD driver. I suspect sole held out because of that - and somehow there may be a SRAM rep happy happy because of the king driver and shimano's not so widen range product.
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Did I quote you? When I wrote this I just came from bikerumor.com. Half of the comments are about the looks of the cranks. It was a blanket statement. I see how I look like a prick from your point of view being the next comment. I was afraid I quoted you instead of just hitting reply to thread, lol... I would have been a real chump then. Sorry man!As far as calling me a roadie for commenting on the looks.... well that really, super, duper, duper, duper, hurts my feelings.
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OK I guess I jumped the gun on that one....your comment about those concerned about the looks right after I posted about the looks [ugliness] of the group led me to believe that...well my apologies.
I still think it is ugly but I also said I am sure it will work great. They definitely are aiming for a different boat and maybe their marketing research is telling them that XC racing is the future of MTB and we just haven't gotten that message yet. Them and SRAM with the new RS1 $2k XC racing fork.
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I'm disappointed. When I'm setting up a high end bike these days, most are going 1x11 XX1 or XO1.
When picking the chainring I give the custy a choice:
Give up nothing on the low end with a 28 chainring (low is 28 x 42 which is equal to a 24x36).
Give up nothing on the high end with a 34 chainring ( high gear is 34x10 which is equal to a 38x11)
or give up a little of each with a 30 or 32 chainring.
Most of my customers, say 90%, go with a 28 or 30 tooth, so as to keep most or all of the low end.
So the shimano 1x11 is ONLY good for the 10 or 15% of my customers who are willing to keep the high end and give up the low end.
Literally 10 or 15% of my customers are willing to give up the low end, it's Colorado. So will I want to stock this on my floor and take the chance that I have the right bike for that 10 or 15%. Not really.
Bummed overall as I like options and so do my customers.
When picking the chainring I give the custy a choice:
Give up nothing on the low end with a 28 chainring (low is 28 x 42 which is equal to a 24x36).
Give up nothing on the high end with a 34 chainring ( high gear is 34x10 which is equal to a 38x11)
or give up a little of each with a 30 or 32 chainring.
Most of my customers, say 90%, go with a 28 or 30 tooth, so as to keep most or all of the low end.
So the shimano 1x11 is ONLY good for the 10 or 15% of my customers who are willing to keep the high end and give up the low end.
Literally 10 or 15% of my customers are willing to give up the low end, it's Colorado. So will I want to stock this on my floor and take the chance that I have the right bike for that 10 or 15%. Not really.
Bummed overall as I like options and so do my customers.
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My custys are happy with xx1--no front der, no front shifter. If shimano just made a 11-42 cassette, the problem pretty much goes away. Hopefully it's just an XTR thing.
It's taken shimano 25 years of STI shifting to realize that customers want 32 or 34 tooth cogs on their road bikes, hopefully it doesn't take that long for MTB to realize that people like low gears.
I'm guessing the guys at shimano are just so frickin strong, low gears don't matter. But try spending a day selling bikes in Colorado with high gears--no worky.
On the xx1 not being cool forever, I think that's like saying 650b is a fad and we'll all be back on 26" in a few years.
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