Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Angry bunny
Joined
·
4,948 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Short course, 6 hour, 12 hour, 24 hour racing along with perhaps some 100km events.

Looking at the Air9 and EMD with either a Manitou Minute or Reba Race.

Which of these 2 would you recommend.
What else would you look at.

I am wanting to go Weight Weenie on it if that helps to reduce the options.
 

·
Recovering couch patato
Joined
·
14,019 Posts
I would steer clear of old-style 29" geometry bikes for endurance events, even though Padre will rightfully and proudly present his lovely wife's result list aboard the otherwise fine Niner bikes.

You're limiting yourself to one brand, which would be great if you gave us your reasons for it.

Weightweenieism will also be among us, and if you're OK with it and its cost implications vs. little time gain, cool. Don't look for a particularly light frame though, as that alone is often counter-productive, especially with metal frames. Light frames jsut are not faster. My faster frame is a 2.9kg steel one that's $149 including fork in some stores. Power needs to be transferred, not absorbed in flex.

I'm quite fond of the 2008 Fisher. Thoroughly tested by Gary himself, and his XC and endurance pro riders. They tried all geometries options, and to their own surprise ended up with what was named G2 as the optimum.

I could bug you with my experiences and preferences of bike handling for endurance, but I'll keep it short by underlining that I think the G2 style of design is a superior approach, and certainly a strong hint of the future of off-road cycling.

If you can get one in your size, it will be hard to improve on a Fisher Superfly. As light a frame as anyone will ever really need. And who will say a Fox fork is not good enough for him?
That doesn't mean a Niner wouldn't be fine for you (they are well-made bikes and splendid people no doubt about that), but to be honest it's how excellent 29"-specific bikes were designed in 2003. Dozen of brands used that nearly identical geometry, and the market would have settled on that had Fisher not taken the leap and investement to improve bikes at the core.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents: I just got an Air 9 with all lightweight parts (American Classic wheels, Reba SL, 1 X 9 drivetrain, etc), and it comes in at 22.5 lbs (this is a medium frame). That's pretty damn light for a 29er with a 100mm fork that can be both ridden during the week on technical trails and then raced on the weekend (I race Sport class in the Northeast US). Plus there are ways to still lighten it up.

Anyway, it's pretty damn efficient on climbs and I highly recommend it, though I have to admit that I have not done any real endurance events on it - I would definitely get a plush saddle because - though more comfortable than my 26" steel hardtail - it is *still* a hardtail.

Good luck in whatever decision you end up making!
 

·
Recovering couch patato
Joined
·
14,019 Posts
All that G says would could for alu frames from Fisher, Kona, Astrix, etc too. And every frame can be built up light. I've even seen 22lb Surly's on here.

It won't fit the Air 9 without a shim, but I would look at a Ti seatpost for bum's comfort. Well light enough, and a different not to be denied.

Redline Flight pedals wonderfully, and is super comfy even with a flat lightweight seat on it.

Between alu frames, there's hardly any weight difference between brand, model or even size. The variance is just not a significant factor in total bike weight. Between ears though, it might be an obstacle keeping you from performing well, if you let it.
Riders with heavier bikes usually beat me. On my heavier of bikes, I tend to be fast.
 

·
Terror of Sidewalls
Joined
·
301 Posts
TR said:
Looking at the Air9 and EMD with either a Manitou Minute or Reba Race.
When I demo'd bikes with a minute fork I was disappointed with my ability to stiffen up the fork and mash up hills without bob. If I was riding a hardtail, I would definitely want a fork that locked out nicely.

I ended up putting a reba with a poplock on my FS and love the ability to lock it out with a quick thumbpress and be able fly up hills standing up in a tall gear without bobbing much at all. I leave mine locked out (the rear as well) a lot when not on really rocky stuff.

The fox forks I've demo'd locked out great as well, but without handlebar access.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,652 Posts
Op Ti?

TR said:
What else would you look at.

I am wanting to go Weight Weenie on it if that helps to reduce the options.
Maybe Vassago Optimus Ti. I ride a Jabber and the geometry is excellent. The op is lighter and comes with the paragon sliding dropouts. And it's Titanium (=sexy). Very nice!

Can't delete so I'll edit: Sorry thought I was in the singlespeed forum. Anyways, still a very good frame. Vassago also has a geared frame (Bandersnatch). Never ridden it but all the Vassago frames seem to be pretty sweet and lightweight. Good luck!
 

·
Always Learning
Joined
·
9,608 Posts
TR said:
Short course, 6 hour, 12 hour, 24 hour racing along with perhaps some 100km events.

Looking at the Air9 and EMD with either a Manitou Minute or Reba Race.

Which of these 2 would you recommend.
What else would you look at.

I am wanting to go Weight Weenie on it if that helps to reduce the options.
I'm looking at your age (your profile lists 40) and intended use that includes longer distance and longer time events when making my suggestion. I'm also in my 40's and one cannot emphasize enough the need for additional recovery once they hit the 40's. And to make that recovery go better, having a bike that limits getting so beat up absolutely aids "experienced in years" riders.:D

I think bikes like the HiFi, Dos Niner, Leviathan, Titus Racer X, etc... should be the first considered. They can all be built up light, provide an excellent platform for racing and will aid in you not getting so beat up or fatigued on the course which will speed recovery. I couldn't imagine sitting on an Air9 or EMD in a 12 hour or 24 hour race from a rider in his/her 40's. That's a perfect scenario for a FS platform. You are not going to be out of saddle at the umpteenth hour, so having a race sled where you can sit and spin for the duration is ideal and weigh on my choice.

BB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts
7daysaweek said:
Maybe Vassago Optimus Ti. I ride a Jabber and the geometry is excellent. The op is lighter and comes with the paragon sliding dropouts. And it's Titanium (=sexy). Very nice!

Can't delete so I'll edit: Sorry thought I was in the singlespeed forum. Anyways, still a very good frame. Vassago also has a geared frame (Bandersnatch). Never ridden it but all the Vassago frames seem to be pretty sweet and lightweight. Good luck!
No apology necessary. The Optimus Ti can go both ways -- single speed or geared by switching the right Paragon slider. Hope to get mine soon.
 

·
Angry bunny
Joined
·
4,948 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
BruceBrown said:
I'm looking at your age (your profile lists 40) and intended use that includes longer distance and longer time events when making my suggestion. I'm also in my 40's and one cannot emphasize enough the need for additional recovery once they hit the 40's. And to make that recovery go better, having a bike that limits getting so beat up absolutely aids "experienced in years" riders.:D

I think bikes like the HiFi, Dos Niner, Leviathan, Titus Racer X, etc... should be the first considered. They can all be built up light, provide an excellent platform for racing and will aid in you not getting so beat up or fatigued on the course which will speed recovery. I couldn't imagine sitting on an Air9 or EMD in a 12 hour or 24 hour race from a rider in his/her 40's. That's a perfect scenario for a FS platform. You are not going to be out of saddle at the umpteenth hour, so having a race sled where you can sit and spin for the duration is ideal and weigh on my choice.

BB
BB
Understand what you are saying but I am not convinced that FS is for me.
I had a Superlight a few years ago and never rode it again after getting a rigid Surly 1x1.
Have a geared and an SS Zion currently. Barely ride the geared bike outside of a couple of races I have done this year.
Did a 100km event last year with a rigid fork on the geared Zion. Did 2 other 100km events the year before on a SS Ventana El Comandante.
I am probably fitter now than I was at 30 and definitely lighter.

Not saying you are wrong, just not convinced that I want/need a FS bike.
Happy to be convinced though so long as the budget is not smashed.
 

·
Always Learning
Joined
·
9,608 Posts
TR said:
BB
Understand what you are saying but I am not convinced that FS is for me.
I had a Superlight a few years ago and never rode it again after getting a rigid Surly 1x1.
Have a geared and an SS Zion currently. Barely ride the geared bike outside of a couple of races I have done this year.
Did a 100km event last year with a rigid fork on the geared Zion. Did 2 other 100km events the year before on a SS Ventana El Comandante.
I am probably fitter now than I was at 30 and definitely lighter.

Not saying you are wrong, just not convinced that I want/need a FS bike.
Happy to be convinced though so long as the budget is not smashed.
That's cool. I ride the Dos Niner for most races for the extra 1" it gives me in the rear. Not a full suspension by any means, but a nice HT with a little cush which helps in short and long races. But it sounds like you are headed for a SS frame...

What is it about your two Zions that you currently race that you don't like and have you moving to the Niner frames (or other brand)? Whatever you get, with the proper parts and wheels - you will be able to build it up weight weenie light.

BB
 

·
Angry bunny
Joined
·
4,948 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
BruceBrown said:
That's cool. I ride the Dos Niner for most races for the extra 1" it gives me in the rear. Not a full suspension by any means, but a nice HT with a little cush which helps in short and long races. But it sounds like you are headed for a SS frame...

What is it about your two Zions that you currently race that you don't like and have you moving to the Niner frames (or other brand)? Whatever you get, with the proper parts and wheels - you will be able to build it up weight weenie light.

BB
Sorry I was not clear here.
While I love my rigid SS, this bike will be geared for racing.
I have nothing against my Zion's but they are heavy.
The geared one comes in at 27lb built with:
X9 groupset
XT cranks
Thomson seatpost and stem
SLR saddle
EC70 bar
Hope Pro2 hubs laced to Sun DS2 rims via DT Revolution spokes
Formula Oro brakes
Reba Race fork

I basically want something lighter and have upgradeitis. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,060 Posts
Ventana El Padrino. Sherwood will tell you that there are a few guys that race these. Light as hell, too, and great XC geometry that makes getting out of the saddle and hammering a viable option.
 

·
Angry bunny
Joined
·
4,948 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
TLL said:
Ventana El Padrino. Sherwood will tell you that there are a few guys that race these. Light as hell, too, and great XC geometry that makes getting out of the saddle and hammering a viable option.
Been there with the El Comandante.
Great bike but I think I want something different,
 

·
Recovering couch patato
Joined
·
14,019 Posts
If your mor than nicely built Zion is 26lb, don't expect the starting point with an Alu frame to be much less than 25lb. Hardly significant a weight difference, IMO. Between the ears, surely, but over the course of 12 hours barely a whole minute, if anything at all.

Go sponsor the bike industry all you want, it's a good cause, and all their marketing is aimed at us feeling about our bikes the way you do: "too heavy".
But don't expect weight miracles from a lighter frame. Bruce was the one with the lightweight KM I think, and that frame is a good pound heavier than your Zion. It's all in the parts selection, and even a really light bike will not be fast per se.

Good luck,

J
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
568 Posts
I think the Dos Niner is a good choice. It's soft-tail scandium at a decent price. At some 3 pounds for the frame I'm sure you can build a sub-25 lb 29er with the goodness of a dualie!
 

·
Angry bunny
Joined
·
4,948 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Cloxxki said:
If your mor than nicely built Zion is 26lb, don't expect the starting point with an Alu frame to be much less than 25lb. Hardly significant a weight difference, IMO. Between the ears, surely, but over the course of 12 hours barely a whole minute, if anything at all.

Go sponsor the bike industry all you want, it's a good cause, and all their marketing is aimed at us feeling about our bikes the way you do: "too heavy".
But don't expect weight miracles from a lighter frame. Bruce was the one with the lightweight KM I think, and that frame is a good pound heavier than your Zion. It's all in the parts selection, and even a really light bike will not be fast per se.

Good luck,

J
OK I hear what you are saying and given that I do like my Zion, maybe I should save the bulk of my dollars but spend some of them lightening and prettying my existing bike up rather than spending a minimum $1000 Australian to save a kg.

Perhaps a nice paint job and some lighter components would see me happy.
Maybe you and some other members could give me some ideas on where I can shave some grams.
Tyres, stem, seatpost, grips, brakes??
 

·
Expert Crasher
Joined
·
6,359 Posts


I think it's a pretty nice setup. Only thing I'd change is the rims (swap for Arches) - though I don't have a good history with Sun DS2s overall.
 

·
Angry bunny
Joined
·
4,948 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
GreenLightGo said:


I think it's a pretty nice setup. Only thing I'd change is the rims (swap for Arches) - though I don't have a good history with Sun DS2s overall.
Umm, excuse my ignorance but why would I go to all that trouble to save only 80g vs my DS2's????
If I was saving 200g I may be interested but 80g seems a waste of time.
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top