REVIEWS DEALS BIKESHOPS TRAILS

XC Racing Question

1007 Views 18 Replies 9 Participants Last post by no nancies, Jun 30, 2009

Huckler

Discussion Starter · Jun 23, 2009

I'm planning on starting XC racing out on the Olympic Peninsula. We have several trails most people know of, and many more that are locally known only probably. I'd like to get some input from you all as to what you would like, and/or what we're lacking elsewhere in the state.

Such as: Do we want laps of big loops?
Any interest in endurance style (extra long loops 30-50 mi)?
Any interest in 2-day events with 2 XC locations or super-d one day and xc
the other?
I'd like to start in the fall with one, is everyone burned out by then?

Back in the day, (The NW Championship Series by Eric Eaton) the races were a two-day event for the most part. A good percentage of people would come out Saturday, pre-ride the course, party at night, camp-out and race Sunday. The courses were 15 to 20 mile loops and very challenging. I think every one had a hike-a-bike, long descents, and Manashtash even had a mandatory dismount section. That series was awsome and I'm sure some of you remember it and would agree.

Point is, I want to create something that is for the riders, not just convenient. Please share your input.

Lastly, the fall event could even be a couple days of semi-organized, no-fee rides to show people the less known trails.

Thanks in advance for your time.

Scott

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

borregokid

· #2 · Jun 23, 2009

I think its pretty tough putting on a race outside the Indie Series. The Budu Series is fairly successful because it catches riders early in the season and its in the Seattle area with the big population base. The Indie Series is the main race series but when riders have to travel far as in Winthrop the attendance drops off. Plus after the Padden race by mid summer attendance falls a little more for the last two races.

The Winthrop Fat Tire race in October which used to be pretty big is down to maybe 100-150 riders. A lot of people will not travel more than 100 miles to a race and I think Winthrop is a good example both in Spring and Fall.

The Cap Forest Race is a decent single event race but it still is able to draw riders from Seattle and I am guessing about half the riders are from the Olympia area. Its also pretty well organized with the FOCF. Four years ago I went to a big loop race at Cap Forest that had a decent amount of publicity and I think there were only 30 riders.

Once Labor Day comes a whole lot of people at either cyclocross or are done for the year. Participation will mostly be based I think on your local population base. If you were able to link up with the Indie Series next year I think you could have a decent number of participants. I think if you had camping facilities and maybe even had stuff set up a couple of days before the race for riding you could have a successful race but even then it could take a few years to catch on. The Leavenworth race is the most successful race in the state. Its in a good location, not too far away and it has the beer garden. They had to limit the race to 400 riders this year.

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Huckler

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jun 23, 2009

Thanks Borrego

I was wondering what the turn-outs were nowadays. Back when I raced XC there was never less than a couple hundred, anywhere. I'm actually suprised that the downhill scene is more vibrant than the xc scene.

Being a part of the indie series would be great, we would need a couple of races under our belt to get in though. I don't think they consider our downhill event production success in the screening process, which I understand.

Ideally, what I would really like to build to would be Cascade Cream Puff style. Grueling, stoked just to finish type event, with killer food/beer garden/ entry cap after a couple. We've so got the terrain, and I think we might be serving a different market than weekend xc'ers alone, people travel for those. The one I've been tinkering with starts and finishes at a campground that is a great party venue, and has an o-so-cooperative owner. The trail options are awsome and you've probably not ridden any of them (ie not mueller, dungeness, and the like)

What about a grueling death march (though rewarding) ride with a big party at the end? Any bites?

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ACree

· #4 · Jun 23, 2009

Personally, I think there's a market for endurance events in WA. I'd love to see some that are longer then typical XC but shorter then a 100, preferably single loops with lots of trail.

If OR can support two 100 miles races and a 50, I'm sure WA could support at least one longer event, especially if it wasn't too far out of the greater Seattle area. I've always thought Capitol Forest would be great for that. There's clearly a market for quality XC events, given how many here will go up to BC for the test of metal, and that it sells out with 800 or 1000 riders in minutes.

The death march and party idea sounds good too - sorta like Bends Big Fat Tour. WA could use an event like that.

AndrwSwitch

· #5 · Jun 23, 2009

A couple of my teammates travel to do endurance races. That suggests a market to me.

borregokid

· #6 · Jun 23, 2009

There might be a market for a difficult race but I wouldnt make it too hard. The race out at Capital Forest I think might have been 2004 because Jason Jablonski was still racing and he won the race. There were no women in the race. It covered 22 miles and went to the top of Capital Peak. There was beer afterwards and spaghetti. It was a fun race but it wasnt really broad based in its appeal because of the difficulty. I raced over at Schweitzer a couple of times and the second time I noticed how poorly Washington racers traveled-very few racers from WA after that they decided not to do a National race in the NW.

ACree

· #7 · Jun 24, 2009

I think the key is a quality course and a well run event. There are endurance races all over the country that sell out every year. Difficulty may narrow the target audience, but a well run even and good course will bring them in from farther away. I think a 4-6 hour event would be great, but really it's the course that is most important.

IMO, Schweitzer isn't comparable to this type of event. Neither NORBA nor WIM delivered much value for the racer, and the consumers voted with their wallets.

Huckler

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jun 24, 2009

Thanks ya'll

Great info/advice. I think the quality course would be no problem out here. If you haven't ridden it yet, the new Adventure Route section of the Olympic Discovery Trail is awsome. Currently it is about 24 miles of mostly singletrack with some logging road with very steady rideable grades, killer views and some of the most flowy descents you'll find. It starts at the west end of Lake Crescent, so you could easily add another 10 miles of the Spruce Railroad trail (follows the shore of Lake Crescent) and is basically flat so the extra miles would be easily doable. The other way would be to start with Sadie Creek which feeds into the Adventure Route which would add a bit of more challenging trail for those who chose. It would be a point to point race requiring a bus (for humans), truck (for bikes) ride out west, but it would end at the Elwha Dam RV Park for the party. Probably 3-6 hours of riding.

For this kind of thing, I think starting with more of a fun-ride (with informal timing I guess, maybe marathon open class style). It could develop into more of a race format and someday even an out and back class for the truley sadistic.

I love the event organizing part most of all. I'm thinking native style plank salmon bake, camping, beer, on top of a killer ride. I guess I should start looking at dates. The fall would be the best time I believe.

Starting to get stoked over here!!

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RRBFUN

· #9 · Jun 24, 2009

Put this question up on the indies form site and see what people want.

Contact the indie series about having XC race out dry hill next yr. They are lossing South Seatac and may be up for adding a new/old course. Need to add more single track at the power lines for begenners though. Dry hill is an excellent expert course but to short for begginers to stay down below. The WIM course was good because it went furhter east on the power lines but that became private property.

Going to ride the adventure discovery trail Saturday. I did it a year and a half ago how many more miles of single track have be added. It was mainly dirt roads last time.

You want adventure/endurance XC- Start a MT. Mueller go counter clockwise, down connector trail to sadie creek, do climbs at sadie creek then to adventure discovery trial to end it. Day two- foot hill loop then up the back side of Dry hill from the trais off of black diamond road and end with dry hill trails.

Huckler

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jun 24, 2009

Mind Reader!!!!

RRBFUN said:
Put this question up on the indies form site and see what people want.

Contact the indie series about having XC race out dry hill next yr. They are lossing South Seatac and may be up for adding a new/old course. Need to add more single track at the power lines for begenners though. Dry hill is an excellent expert course but to short for begginers to stay down below. The WIM course was good because it went furhter east on the power lines but that became private property.

Going to ride the adventure discovery trail Saturday. I did it a year and a half ago how many more miles of single track have be added. It was mainly dirt roads last time.

You want adventure/endurance XC- Start a MT. Mueller go counter clockwise, down connector trail to sadie creek, do climbs at sadie creek then to adventure discovery trial to end it. Day two- foot hill loop then up the back side of Dry hill from the trais off of black diamond road and end with dry hill trails.

I have talked to indie organizers and they want one or more in the books before we are included.

As for Dry Hill. The old race course was lame, I agree. There are many more trails that were not used that are killer on the backside and far east side. I put on a poker run a couple of years ago and it was about 1/3 road to 2/3 trail and it was 18 miles or so. The quad trails are sweet too because they are basically all 2 singletracks (single track with a passing lane). For the beginners, I would send them up the shuttle hill as well. The west powerlines are lame, but the eastern area is sweet. I wouldn't go below the powerlines on those trails though. As far as the private property, you can still do a loop without getting into that.

There is quite a bit more singletrack since 1.5 years on the Adv Rt. You'll be impressed. The longest section of road (3 miles on Joyce access) is being bypassed as we speak.

The above route(s) are pretty close to two events in mind.
1. Day one from Mt.Pleasant over the top and into Morse Creek, up and over Foothills, up and over Dry Hill to The RV Park. Day two Sadie Creek to Adv route end at RV Park.
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2. A few of us are actually going to do the "4 Peaks Challenge" Mt Mueller(1st peak) as you said, down the back to Sadie (2nd peak), adventure route to Kelly Peak (3rd peak) and ride into town to Peaks Pub (4th peak ovbiously). Guessing 60 miles (hard ones too) and most of a day.

You must be a local?

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RRBFUN

· #11 · Jun 24, 2009

Huckler said:
I have talked to indie organizers and they want one or more in the books before we are included.

As for Dry Hill. The old race course was lame, I agree. There are many more trails that were not used that are killer on the backside and far east side. I put on a poker run a couple of years ago and it was about 1/3 road to 2/3 trail and it was 18 miles or so. The quad trails are sweet too because they are basically all 2 singletracks (single track with a passing lane). For the beginners, I would send them up the shuttle hill as well. The west powerlines are lame, but the eastern area is sweet. I wouldn't go below the powerlines on those trails though. As far as the private property, you can still do a loop without getting into that.

There is quite a bit more singletrack since 1.5 years on the Adv Rt. You'll be impressed. The longest section of road (3 miles on Joyce access) is being bypassed as we speak.

The above route(s) are pretty close to two events in mind.
1. Day one from Mt.Pleasant over the top and into Morse Creek, up and over Foothills, up and over Dry Hill to The RV Park. Day two Sadie Creek to Adv route end at RV Park.
of
2. A few of us are actually going to do the "4 Peaks Challenge" Mt Mueller(1st peak) as you said, down the back to Sadie (2nd peak), adventure route to Kelly Peak (3rd peak) and ride into town to Peaks Pub (4th peak ovbiously). Guessing 60 miles (hard ones too) and most of a day.

You must be a local?

I grew up there and rode motocycles on all the trails. I still do some exploring a couple times a year when in town to visit my folks, but most everything is private land (always on the look out not to get shoot) or overgrown now.

Could also do Deer Park to Burnt hill or the Ultimate Burnt hill to dry Hills there's your 75-100 miles.

ACree

· #12 · Jun 25, 2009

4 peaks challenge even sounds like you have your event name.

chmnyboy

· #13 · Jun 25, 2009

Huckler said:
2. A few of us are actually going to do the "4 Peaks Challenge" Mt Mueller(1st peak) as you said, down the back to Sadie (2nd peak), adventure route to Kelly Peak (3rd peak) and ride into town to Peaks Pub (4th peak ovbiously). Guessing 60 miles (hard ones too) and most of a day.

Big plans for a DH'er. You need more than a shiny new bike to be xc...

Huckler

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jun 25, 2009

Cmnyboy

chmnyboy said:
Big plans for a DH'er. You need more than a shiny new bike to be xc...

I didn't say I was going to compete in the races. Let's see if you make it through the cream-puff with out crumbling like the roadie you are.

We're still like best friends though....right??

Huckler

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jun 25, 2009

Maybe 3 peaks

ACree said:
4 peaks challenge even sounds like you have your event name.

The fourth peak would be hard to pull off until the trail ends in town, which isn't too far off actually?? Also, I've never put on an event on Forest Service land and don't know their stance on these things yet.

willymcd

· #16 · Jun 29, 2009

Living in portland i would travel up there for a super D then a XC the next day. If you have a long and fun super D i am sure lots of people would travel for it.
seems like the enduro events outnumber the XC races down here. and most of the XC races are held early in the year, when it is muddy and nasty out.

ICE

· #17 · Jun 30, 2009

Got big plans for being broken... I'm sure you could put on a sick event. The reason you get such a good turnout for DH races is because you don't have to ride up the hill - and going down is what's it's all about.... If ya know what I mean....

Huckler

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jun 30, 2009

Going down

ICE said:
Got big plans for being broken... I'm sure you could put on a sick event. The reason you get such a good turnout for DH races is because you don't have to ride up the hill - and going down is what's it's all about.... If ya know what I mean....

I know about you and you're wanting to "go down" all the time. And while flattered, for the most part I believe most of us would pass. Actually I got a lot of e-mails about you from the last race and we'd just prefer you stay home for our events Ice.
Thanks

no nancies

· #19 · Jun 30, 2009

Yup

Rode the adventure route last Saturday, and it is good stuff. When all the dots between the FSR portions get done, the ride up to top of the waterline road would be tough and good.
I prefer adventure/endurance race events that take in some navigational challenges. There are some routes around the OLP that could be attempted. Or this: dungeness to tubal,
to Marmit, to lower big Q, to Notch, and then some FSR to start.
Cheers from Kitsap

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