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I thought I would tap this keg-o-knowledge on a reliable, light, 29er wheelset for xc racing and general trail riding. Right, this horse has probably been beat to death at some point in the past, but things change. That's good. Otherwise I would still be riding that old black Huffy. The problem is still the same though. Light, cheap, strong -- pick two. Well, let's throw that out the window and look at light, strong, reliable -- pick three. I'm starting off with a set of Stan's ZTR Olympic 29er 32 hole rims (in the mail). Leaning towards DT 240 disc hubs. What are your thoughts? Note to self: Act surprised when wife asks about package at door.
 

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Rims

volpepazza said:
I thought I would tap this keg-o-knowledge on a reliable, light, 29er wheelset for xc racing and general trail riding. Right, this horse has probably been beat to death at some point in the past, but things change. That's good. Otherwise I would still be riding that old black Huffy. The problem is still the same though. Light, cheap, strong -- pick two. Well, let's throw that out the window and look at light, strong, reliable -- pick three. I'm starting off with a set of Stan's ZTR Olympic 29er 32 hole rims (in the mail). Leaning towards DT 240 disc hubs. What are your thoughts? Note to self: Act surprised when wife asks about package at door.
That is a good start! I have the Olympics with DB spokes, brass nips and Hadley Hubs :)
 

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Don't forget to factor in your gut size, there seems to be a lot of Clydes on this board. I myself am gut free (#145) and will be running IRD Cadence rims. I can get 2 of these for the price of one stans...that's a lot of tacos ;)

Shane
 

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you're probably right on the money for using Stan's as a race style rim. As long as they are build with proper spokes I'd have no fears.

Shane
 

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Based on cost, I decided on the Velocity VXC 29ers. They're only fifty bucks and they weigh 460g as compared to Stan's 420g. I was planning on Stan's, but I heard too many complaints about them when run as daily riders. A lot of the other options out there are fairly heavy, so the Velocities seemed like a good middle ground. I haven't built them yet, but I'll report back once I've gotten out on them.

Oh, and back to the question at hand. Hubs. I have a Hope XC front and a Surly SS rear. I haven't ridden them yet, but they sure look pretty on the shelf. :D
 

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No problems with stans 180 lbs. I use them as my only set of wheels on my SS soft tail here in phoenix. I had them built by a great builder and they have stayed true. I am having another set done for my fs frame that I am building.
 

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225 on Stan's

IBIKEAZ said:
No problems with stans 180 lbs. I use them as my only set of wheels on my SS soft tail here in phoenix. I had them built by a great builder and they have stayed true. I am having another set done for my fs frame that I am building.
Light, strong and not cheap. Have a set on my SS and FS.
 

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depends doesnt it? tubeless? wt? riding style? courses? discs? etc etc...

dt hubs are super duper sweet. i use dt comps and open pros with ceramic coating. used cross tyres/exis/irc/vapors all fine. rim brakes and im 175lb ride light but rigid singlespeed with usually rocky roots and technical terrain...

what i want? this or I9

hm,mm
 

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DT Swiss and Stan's

Thought I'd throw this out there - I was recently told by Stan himself that the DT Swiss 240 hubs are not recommended for use with his rims, because of their relatively narrow flange spacing (which, if you compare them head to head with many other hubs, is a real issue). Apparently you need to run almost twice the spoke tension on the drive side as the nondrive to dish them correctly with 700c rims.

I have done a couple of frames where I offset the entire rear end of the bike 5mm to the driveside, which pretty much fixes the dish issue (the wheel becomes basically dishless). But since this obviously isn't an option on most frames, I'd make sure your wheelbuilder is really, really good.

I have several hundred miles on my VXCs now and have no problems to report. They work well tubeless (with a rimstrip, that is), haven't needed any truing, and seem to build up pretty round/true out of the box. Thumbs up so far!

-Walt
 

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Walt

Walt said:
Thought I'd throw this out there - I was recently told by Stan himself that the DT Swiss 240 hubs are not recommended for use with his rims, because of their relatively narrow flange spacing
Is this null and void if using the single speed rear hub?
 

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I was hoping the SS version would give me the best of both world : wider than most other SS hub bodies, and better flange sapcing than geared hubs. Not so?

And how about those new Amercian Classic geared disc hubs, same problem, I guess?
 

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I assume so.

I was talking about the geared rear hub. The singlespeed version should have wide/even enough flanges to be fine, I would think.

And remember, this isn't something I know from personal experience - it's just that Stan specifically mentioned the 240 hubs to me while chatting about wheelsets (those of you who have talked with him know that he can "chat" for quite a while sometimes). So take everything I've said with a grain of salt, eh? One of the guys on the WW team is building a non-offset frame with the 240 disc hubs and Stans, so we'll see how it works soon enough.

-Walt

Loki said:
Is this null and void if using the single speed rear hub?
 

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ive not measured, but certainly the flange spacing is not super wide a la paul or phil non disc hubs...if memory serves these are around a 100mm and the dt is significantly less...still ive been using em for err, 2-3 years? ish? and never had any bother them unravelling or anyhting.. top hub...and you couldf maybe run 4 speed for oe of yer funky drivechains im sure...
 

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Walt,

Good to hear you're liking the VXCs. It's hard to find much info about them, so I'm kind of buying blind. You reviewed them well on your site and the guys at Odds 'n Endos had good things to say, so I decided to give them a try. Thanks for the review!

Gavin
 

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Walt said:
Thought I'd throw this out there - I was recently told by Stan himself that the DT Swiss 240 hubs are not recommended for use with his rims, because of their relatively narrow flange spacing (which, if you compare them head to head with many other hubs, is a real issue). Apparently you need to run almost twice the spoke tension on the drive side as the nondrive to dish them correctly with 700c rims. Walt
Sounds like sour grapes to me (from Stan--not Walt. Anyone that knows Wally knows that he ONLY has sour grapes to offer, ever...). I say this because I've been privy to some of the bad blood between Stan and DT. Won't go into detail (can't...) other than to say that Stan had a small issue with someone else using his clever, revolutionary, unthinkable, detubifying idea to make $$. Whatever.

As far as the narrow flanges on the DT's, pffft. Go to Stan's website (www.notubes.com) and pay close attention to the fact that his top two preferred disc hubs to build with are the American Classic disc and the WTB Laser Lite disc--which are basically the same hub. You can find them (and their critical dimensions) here:
http://www.amclassic.com/Hubs_Rear.html

Then compare them to the DT's here:
http://www.dtswiss.com/data/files/DAT_EN_50930155779.pdf

Do a spoke calc with those numbers, or simply get out a piece of paper and draw an (approximated) triangle with the center-to-flange widths marked for both the DT (240s disc, geared) hub and Stan's preferred AC/WTB. The DT has a wider base of support than the AC/WTB, which means, all other things being equal, that the DT will build a more stable wheel with more even spoke tension between the left/right sides.

Wheelmeisters may/will probably take issue with my oversimplification above. Remember that it's just that--we all know there are lots of other things going on. The point is that the two/three hubs are close enough that the difference is going to be negligible at best. Stan's just spewing, god knows why this time.

Stan should check his facts more closely before spewing such unprovable statements. If the DT folks were remotely interested in frivolous litigation (heck, if they were even 1% as interested in it as Stan himself is...) they'd probably take an interest in this.

But realistically, they'd probably just blow him off as the eccentric, loudmouthed crackpot that he is, and go on about their business.

MC
 

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I stand corrected!

Yet another good reason to have MC build you wheels, rather than listening to my secondhand advice!

Apologies, everyone - I took Stan at his word, and some brief experimentation with spocalc this morning reveals that MC is right as far as I can tell.

Maybe I'll wait a little longer to chime in on a wheel thread next time. Harumph. Darnit, Curiak, show some respect for the *current* man of the year, willya? Jeez!

-Walt

mikesee said:
Sounds like sour grapes to me (from Stan--not Walt. Anyone that knows Wally knows that he ONLY has sour grapes to offer, ever...). I say this because I've been privy to some of the bad blood between Stan and DT. Won't go into detail (can't...) other than to say that Stan had a small issue with someone else using his clever, revolutionary, unthinkable, detubifying idea to make $$. Whatever.

As far as the narrow flanges on the DT's, pffft. Go to Stan's website (www.notubes.com) and pay close attention to the fact that his top two preferred disc hubs to build with are the American Classic disc and the WTB Laser Lite disc--which are basically the same hub. You can find them (and their critical dimensions) here:
http://www.amclassic.com/Hubs_Rear.html

Then compare them to the DT's here:
http://www.dtswiss.com/data/files/DAT_EN_50930155779.pdf

Do a spoke calc with those numbers, or simply get out a piece of paper and draw an (approximated) triangle with the center-to-flange widths marked for both the DT (240s disc, geared) hub and Stan's preferred AC/WTB. The DT has a wider base of support than the AC/WTB, which means, all other things being equal, that the DT will build a more stable wheel with more even spoke tension between the left/right sides.

Wheelmeisters may/will probably take issue with my oversimplification above. Remember that it's just that--we all know there are lots of other things going on. The point is that the two/three hubs are close enough that the difference is going to be negligible at best. Stan's just spewing, god knows why this time.

Stan should check his facts more closely before spewing such unprovable statements. If the DT folks were remotely interested in frivolous litigation (heck, if they were even 1% as interested in it as Stan himself is...) they'd probably take an interest in this.

But realistically, they'd probably just blow him off as the eccentric, loudmouthed crackpot that he is, and go on about their business.

MC
 

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mikesee said:
As far as the narrow flanges on the DT's, pffft. Go to Stan's website (www.notubes.com) and pay close attention to the fact that his top two preferred disc hubs to build with are the American Classic disc and the WTB Laser Lite disc--which are basically the same hub.
yeah, what he said. hub flange width and size has become pretty uniform over the last few years, and the amount if dish differential that would turn up between using different hubs would be negligible. maybe if DT hubs were using some bizarre inboard straight pull spoke, or that three flange hype that FSR is now employing, there might be some merit. but in this case, with good stainless steel j-bend spokes from probably the most reputable spoke manufacturer on the planet, i'd be inclined to call BS on the stans rim incompatibility issue.

but then again, i haven't twisted up a pair of stans rims to anything yet. i can only comment on the several hundred other wheels i've built using DT spokes with just about every other hub and rim combo out there over the past 15 years...
 
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