[richj8990]

I'm not 100% sure this guy is a bona-fide pro, but he's at least an expert. He rides both bikes on the same loop. As I suspected, the race was won on the climbs. Lighter bike, faster loop time. Both of my hardtails, depending on the wheelset/tires on, range between 24-28 lbs. The new XC build hopefully finished by Thanksgiving will be somewhere between 23-24 lbs with 700-800g tires. Not that I'm the greatest climber, especially with flat pedals, but a relatively light hardtail with the right fork and tires can be the real deal out there, up or down --- in this video's case, up more than down. This video pretty much confirms that a lighter bike will clearly win on loop times...yes it's one rider, one set of data, but I'm sure it will be reproducible.

One last food for thought: look carefully at how fast he's going downhill on the XC bike, and compare that to whatever you are riding downhill. I'm riding both an XC and AM hardtail about as fast, or maybe one would say, as slow as he did downhill with the XC bike. I speed up on straights, I slow down before it gets steep/chunky, just as he did. As an intermediate rider with no formal training, I was surprised at how similar our speeds and styles were downhill on his XC bike's descent. I think he took a few steeper drops faster than I would have, but other than that it was eerily similar. However, I know for sure there are pros that can shred that downhill portion significantly faster on an XC bike, which does make me wonder if this guy is an expert and not a pro. He also didn't have a dropper post on the XC bike, that's one big disadvantage that levels the playing field a bit for someone at my level. But he crushed the Enduro Bike on the uphills. Which should really beg the question: if Enduro bikes were made to both climb and descend, but they still suck at climbing relative to an XC bike, then maybe some of the bros should think about downgrading to a trail or downcountry bike for a happier medium?

 

[ocnLogan]

IMO there isn’t a right, or wrong answer here. It’s just preference.

Also, enduro bikes are designed not to suck to ride uphill (they don’t bob uncontrollably, and you are in a comfortable body position to grind out a lot of very), but that doesn’t mean they are fast. It’s a product of the enduro race format. Where the riders have to pedal most of the race, but those uphills aren’t timed.

And because of that, they are essentially turning into mini downhill bikes, but with full range cassettes, dropper posts, and other bits to make them more well rounded.

XC races time both the uphill and downhill, and as you said, most races are won on the uphill. so those bikes are also optimized for that with light weight.

So if you care about your overall loop times, then an XC/Trail/Downcountry bike is probably a better choice for you.

But if you care more about having the most fun as possible on the faster downhill bits, or want to set the fastest time downhill, or even want a bike you can ride on your local trails, and at the local lift accessed bike park, then an enduro bike probably makes more sense for you.

 

[OldMike]

Not surprised. IME a FS's main benefit is comfort.......

Also, a "Race" XC FS (Top, Fuel, Epic, Etc) would have bested both IMO.

 

[*OneSpeed*]

If you put an XC bike in a race on a XC course, it will beat other types of bikes. Yup.

If you put that same bike against an Enduro bike on an Enduro course where only the descending segments are timed, the results will be opposite.

This is not new information.

My point is that it would be more interesting if they compared bikes that weren't so far apart on the spectrum.

 

[trulede]

I was surprised by how much faster the XC bike was, but not that it was faster. Especially because it was a hardtail and the downhills were fairly technical. However, the enduro bike looked like more fun on the descents. The idea that Enduro bikes can climb fast is silly.

You don't need a dropper post to ride an XC bike fast.

 

[*OneSpeed*]

You don't need a dropper post to ride an XC bike fast.

I used to think this way. Depends on the terrain, and really why not have more fun while you're going fast? Safer too.

 

[stiingya]

As pointed out, be interesting ti see how a FS xc or down country bike does, also how a modern trail bike: compares instead of full on enduro.

 

[FortOrdMTB]

I can confirm these results. XC bikes are faster, but harder to ride rough downhills. Enduro bikes absorb more impact but aren’t as fast as a racing bikes.

Is there news here?

 

[Le Duke]

I think most people underestimate how rough terrain has to be in order for an enduro bike to be faster than an XC bike going down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jayem]

People tend to vastly over-estimate how technical a trail is or think they need some kind of DH bike because it's DH. It takes a pretty whacked out DH trail to make an enduro or DH bike faster. Like mandatory drops, mandatory gaps, near vertical rollers, etc. It might be more comfortable to do a lot of DHs on an enduro bike, but it's going to take a pretty hard trail to make the enduro bike faster and it's probably going to be a little more common for regions that don't have these trails available to "use what they have"...

 

[rideit]

I routinely do my fastest PR’s locally (on our techies descents) on my shorter travel bikes.
However, when it comes to the fun-factor, it’s not even funny how different the experiences are.
It puts a complete new spin on the phrase “sh¡t-eating grin”
The big bike is a giggle pig all of the way down…the shorter travel bikes (currently 120/140), I am grinning at the end because I didn’t eat any sh¡t!

(I am exaggerating for comedic purposes, but you get the gist)

Each have their place.

 

[Grinchy8]

Another test, use two riders, have them race head to head, then swap bikes and do it again.

 

[milehi]

IMO there isn’t a right, or wrong answer here. It’s just preference.

Also, enduro bikes are designed not to suck to ride uphill (they don’t bob uncontrollably, and you are in a comfortable body position to grind out a lot of very), but that doesn’t mean they are fast. It’s a product of the enduro race format. Where the riders have to pedal most of the race, but those uphills aren’t timed.

And because of that, they are essentially turning into mini downhill bikes, but with full range cassettes, dropper posts, and other bits to make them more well rounded.

XC races time both the uphill and downhill, and as you said, most races are won on the uphill. so those bikes are also optimized for that with light weight.

So if you care about your overall loop times, then an XC/Trail/Downcountry bike is probably a better choice for you.

But if you care more about having the most fun as possible on the faster downhill bits, or want to set the fastest time downhill, or even want a bike you can ride on your local trails, and at the local lift accessed bike park, then an enduro bike probably makes more sense for you.

Enduro racing effin sucks. Bring back super d where you have to sprint up the climbs while your heart is exploding and your arms are dead from arm pump from the DH sections. I can't belive part of the enduro build involves planning for soft pedaling. Don't get me started on sidewalk style flow courses.

 

[idividebyzero]

Anything marginally faster uphill whether a bike or rider is going to win because uphills last MUCH longer than downhills, like 30min up vs 5min down. If you were to look at percentage differences between up and down then the enduro bike should be much faster.

Which should really beg the question: if Enduro bikes were made to both climb and descend, but they still suck at climbing relative to an XC bike, then maybe some of the bros should think about downgrading to a trail or downcountry bike for a happier medium?

Nobody with an enduro bike cares about how fast they go up hill, all that matters is that they can get to the top at a comfortable effort. They are trying to find the limit of how heavy a bike can be before they cant pedal it uphill, they arent trying to find the limit of how XC a bike can be before its not good at downhill.

From what I've seen the XC guys use the downhill to cool off and get energy back, the enduro guys use the uphill to cool off and get energy back. Their bikes are a reflection of that.

 

[ocnLogan]

Enduro racing effin sucks. Bring back super d where you have to sprint up the climbs while your heart is exploding and your arms are dead from arm pump from the DH sections. I can't belive part of the enduro build involves planning for soft pedaling. Don't get me started on sidewalk style flow courses.

I don't race, so I don't really care about any particular format. Which means I'm far from an expert on them. But, while the uphills aren't timed in the traditional sense (counted towards your race time), they do have time penalties for being too slow afaik. I know I've seen mention of it a couple times while racers are attempting to fix their bike, and then getting time penalties for not doing the stage within a certain timeframe. So it while its definitely not a type of racing that encourages you to "breathe through your eyeballs" on every climb, I don't actually know most that do it would call it "soft pedaling".

But I can appreciate that enduro racing has helped bring about more capable, yet non-sucky to pedal bikes. And at least from what I can tell, enduro racing shares more similarities with how most average joes ride around me (don't really care how long it takes to go up, but try to go fast on the downhills), so I can see why it appears to have really taken off as a race format.

 

[stiingya]

Anything marginally faster uphill whether a bike or rider is going to win because uphills last MUCH longer than downhills, like 30min up vs 5min down. If you were to look at percentage differences between up and down then the enduro bike should be much faster.


Nobody with an enduro bike cares about how fast they go up hill, all that matters is that they can get to the top at a comfortable effort. They are trying to find the limit of how heavy a bike can be before they cant pedal it uphill, they arent trying to find the limit of how XC a bike can be before its not good at downhill.

From what I've seen the XC guys use the downhill to cool off and get energy back, the enduro guys use the uphill to cool off and get energy back. Their bikes are a reflection of that.

^^This!!

As much as this is an interesting thought experiment the conclusion that an XC bike is faster on an Enduro track is actually NOT TRUE... because Enduro tracks/races are not timed on the UP.

So technically they should only be comparing the down times and the Enduro bike wins that part!!!

Instead of a "winch and plummet" trail set I think it would be very interesting to try this kind of test with a regular meandering up and down trail and see what kinds of average time they get with different types of bikes.

 

[stiingya]

duplicate

 

[dompedro3]

I'm not 100% sure this guy is a bona-fide pro, but he's at least an expert. ...which does make me wonder if this guy is an expert and not a pro.

That's Rich Payne. Check out the EWS or bust series on youtube. He raced world cup four-cross for years as well as downhill and enduro racing more recently. You are correct, he is not one of the top-5 riders, but he is still pretty damn fast, GoPro makes everything look slower.

 

[chiefsilverback]

I'm riding both an XC and AM hardtail about as fast, or maybe one would say, as slow as he did downhill with the XC bike. I speed up on straights, I slow down before it gets steep/chunky, just as he did. As an intermediate rider with no formal training, I was surprised at how similar our speeds and styles were downhill on his XC bike's descent. I think he took a few steeper drops faster than I would have, but other than that it was eerily similar.

The total course distance was 4.9 miles, with over 1000' of climbing and he did it twice, so nearly 10 miles and 2100' in a total time of 75 minutes. I don't know you or have any idea what level of rider you are, you state "intermediate" in your post, but I'd suggest there's some wishful thinking going on if you think you're anywhere near as fast as this guy, definitely up and especially down.

 

[Jayem]

Anything marginally faster uphill whether a bike or rider is going to win because uphills last MUCH longer than downhills, like 30min up vs 5min down. If you were to look at percentage differences between up and down then the enduro bike should be much faster.


Nobody with an enduro bike cares about how fast they go up hill, all that matters is that they can get to the top at a comfortable effort. They are trying to find the limit of how heavy a bike can be before they cant pedal it uphill, they arent trying to find the limit of how XC a bike can be before its not good at downhill.

From what I've seen the XC guys use the downhill to cool off and get energy back, the enduro guys use the uphill to cool off and get energy back. Their bikes are a reflection of that.

Not only that, but the XC bike retains it's advantage on mild to moderate DHs, it's still faster.