[Soupboy]

Note comment frame breakage. This is inconsistent with my impression of Ventana bikes and CS. Owner input would be much appreciated.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=93127

Thanks,

Sean

 

[LoneStar]

I read that post, and who knows the whole story behind it. Where were they riding and what were they doing? I think that Ventanas are a acknowledged to be very well built, but all bikes can be broken if you are doing something they weren't designed to do. Is it Ventana's responsibility to replace frames if this is the case? I don't think so. Interesting that we have a large # of Ventana owners here who have very positive things to say about the bikes and customer service, and then we get a post like that out of left field from a 3rd party observer. I have actually spoken to the Ventana dealer in Grapevine and if he had any qualms about Ventanas, he didn't mention it to me.

 

[Ciclistagonzo]

Since I visit the Factory....

Note comment frame breakage. This is inconsistent with my impression of Ventana bikes and CS. Owner input would be much appreciated.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=93127

Thanks,

Sean

On a Semi-regularly basis, I do get to see any factory returns. And frankly I have NEVER seen a batch of 5 Chamuco come back. EVER. I did see ONE come back broken on the downtube about three inched up from the BB. So the Tube failed, not the weld.

Do Ventana's Break? Yup, any frame will, we all know that. Does Ventana give you good CS, yup, just look at all the happy customers who post here. One guy, posting third hand? Sounds more like Jealousy than fact.

Ask around, see how well the frames hold up. Shylocks on this 7th? Frame, ask him how many broke on him? (Zero I believe)

Me? I'm on my 4th Frame, and I've ranged from Super sumo (290+ lbs) to my current svelte 235lbs. And except for a cracked swingarm on my Marble Peak (When I was 290, Replaced with out question under warranty) I've had zero "craftmanship" problems.

Now, you want CS problems? Go look at "you know who's" board!! =^D Sorry, couldn't resist!

 

[el Turtlehead]

I wouldn't be surprised...

...if someone like joined MTBR just to trash Ventana. Or, that even a current member joined under a new ISP address just to tarnish their reputation. Probably a @[email protected]#[email protected] owner.;D

I've had consistently great service from Ventana since 1995 -- regardless of who Sherwood had working for him.

Like Aaron said, I'm on my 7th Ventana. Granted, several were stolen when I lived in La, but they all saw their fair share of abuse. The last Marble peak I sold (it was a 1998) was still in action last time I checked.

I wouldn't be a l"oyal for life" customer if I knew 1 person who had been mistreated or had a poorly built Ventana frame who wasn't cared for properly. And generally speaking, Ventana always goes above and beyond the call of duty when it comes to CS.

Feel the gin

Note comment frame breakage. This is inconsistent with my impression of Ventana bikes and CS. Owner input would be much appreciated.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=93127

Thanks,

Sean

 

[gonzostrike]

I put my input where it belonged, on THAT thread, responding to willi's assertions. my thoughts are there.

 

[Fattirewilly]

I put my input where it belonged, on THAT thread, responding to willi's assertions. my thoughts are there.

I'd say he's definately getting "piled on".

 

[Soupboy]

As a former Turner Homer...

...I'm still lusting after a 29er 4-Spot. That said, I've spoken with Sherwood a few times, ridden a Salty and have bought my fair share of goods from Ventanarama.

I'm totally diggin the El Capitan...just gotta get the fundage lined up. I only posted this because the referenced post seemed wholly inconsistent with the general heresay re Ventana.

I'm a Horst-link 'Hore. What more can I say? Since DT is apparently unwillingly to create one, I'm jazzed to get a FS 29er from Sherwood. I've never questioned his craftsmanship or CS...but I really like the Horst (please don't start a debate over this). My buddy's (ozlongboarder's) Salty was super stiff, stout, and surprisingly light. I'll take it in a 29er version all day every day.

Thanks for the posts,

Sean

 

[TIGMAN]

Yeah, sure!

I try to have an open mind when people post on the threads, but I would believe riders that have owned Ventana's and have ridden them hard over someone that has never owned one! I know I bought my Salt to ride hard and have fun with! " IF" it breaks someday, it will be from having a great time with it, rather than seeing how long it will last in the garage! TIG.

 

[D-Rock]

Bud-Pivot on Salty
J.R.(twice) chamuco
Mike O. Main pivot and chainstay Chamuco
Theo (twice) chamuco
JimEd Main pivot - replacement is forsale chamuco
Terry R. Pivot and rear tri chamuco
Keith P. Salty around the main pivot front tri
Gary H.rear triangle of X5 at brace between chain stays

The non warranties were Mike O. and Theo who's paid for replacement took 6mo.+

8 frames in the same shop all by people who know each other. Hmmmmmmm. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but the probability is unlikely at best. None of these people are MTBR members, and haven't posted the problems here before?

Credibility is the key factor here. Sherwood has it in spades, this joker doesn't.

JMHO,
D.

 

[Kronk]

I plan to get a Ventana X5 anyway, when I can afford it.

One bike I abuse is my 2001 Giant NRS1. I have ridden it on trails I should have had my Kona Dawg (K2 Disco Monkey before that) on instead.
From some breakages of *any make* I have seen here, under my +200# the NRS should have been in the recycle bin long ago.
Is there something I am doing right, or others wrong? Speculation?

Never have broken a frame, but I can destroy a drivetrain with ease.

 

[ToddM]

It is funny how some people tend to break certain parts, even repeatedly without breaking anything else. I've known guys that could destroy cranks, and nothing else, or frame and not the light XC wheels on the same bike, or could taco a wheel looking at it but ride other light parts with no worries.

I suppose it comes down to certainly where and how you ride and rider dynamics.

 

[CJLED]

It is funny to see...

Everyone here pounce on this guy as if it is impossible. I ordered a Pantera from Cambria bike. It arrived with a crooked swingarm (noticed as a wheel offset in rleation to main frame, as well as swingarm closer to seat post on one side than the other. It goes back to CBO for 'warranty evaluation', only because they won't let me return it outright (I was not happy).

Weeks later, frame comes back, still crooked. Wheel lines up noticably better, but swingarm gaps still unequal, and shock appears slightly canted to drive side. Absolutley unacceptable, from any vendor\price level, let alone one of this cost. Frame goes in box and will be on the way back to CBO as soon as the call tag arrives. I am the owner, firsthand. It happens. Now I have a bike's worth of parts to sell that I can't return (they were mounted and I didn't check the frame beforehand) because of poor quality control, twice. Don't be so quick to pounce on this guy.

 

[Ciclistagonzo]

Fine I'll pounce on you then.

Everyone here pounce on this guy as if it is impossible. I ordered a Pantera from Cambria bike. It arrived with a crooked swingarm (noticed as a wheel offset in rleation to main frame, as well as swingarm closer to seat post on one side than the other. It goes back to CBO for 'warranty evaluation', only because they won't let me return it outright (I was not happy).

Weeks later, frame comes back, still crooked. Wheel lines up noticably better, but swingarm gaps still unequal, and shock appears slightly canted to drive side. Absolutley unacceptable, from any vendor\price level, let alone one of this cost. Frame goes in box and will be on the way back to CBO as soon as the call tag arrives. I am the owner, firsthand. It happens. Now I have a bike's worth of parts to sell that I can't return (they were mounted and I didn't check the frame beforehand) because of poor quality control, twice. Don't be so quick to pounce on this guy.

Kidding...First and foremost, make sure Cambria actually sends it in to Ventana. They have in the past, done thier own "warranty" work which is in no way authorized by Ventana or other manufacturers. Although I have to ask, why sell off parts, once the alignment issues are fixed won't you be able to use the frame still?

-A

 

[11 Bravo]

(QUOTE=CJLED]Everyone here pounce on this guy as if it is impossible. I ordered a Pantera from Cambria bike. It arrived with a crooked swingarm (noticed as a wheel offset in rleation to main frame, as well as swingarm closer to seat post on one side than the other. It goes back to CBO for 'warranty evaluation', only because they won't let me return it outright (I was not happy).

Weeks later, frame comes back, still crooked. Wheel lines up noticably better, but swingarm gaps still unequal, and shock appears slightly canted to drive side. Absolutley unacceptable, from any vendor\price level, let alone one of this cost. Frame goes in box and will be on the way back to CBO as soon as the call tag arrives. I am the owner, firsthand. It happens. Now I have a bike's worth of parts to sell that I can't return (they were mounted and I didn't check the frame beforehand) because of poor quality control, twice. Don't be so quick to pounce on this guy.[/QUOTE]

Did you get the same frame back from CBO, or was it different one with the same problem?

I think you should call Ventana and let them know about the problem. Tell them what happened and also that CBO sent it back without making it right. Make sure they know about the problem and see what they say about it. Everybody turns out a bad widget once in a while. The issue is what they do about it and how they take care of it. If CBO tried to "fix" it in house, Ventana may not know you are having a problem.

It sucks that you had a bad experience. Just make sure that Ventana has a shot at making it right before you are sour on them.

 

[CJLED]

I am pretty sure Ventana had it, as it came back with a diferent swingarm. Ventana told me to deal with Cambria in the first place (I called him first), so I am sure he was aware. It just didn't get resolved. Frankly, it matters not to me which half of that team made the mistake, 2 chancesis enough, and I am done. I am just saying it is certainlypossible to have repeated problems, with any manufacturer.

As for the parts: I wanted a simple, single pivot bike. After the Ventana fiasco, I went to a local Santa Cruz dealer to check out Hecklers and Superlights. The Medium Heckler was too short in the top tube even with along stem and I was pushing the standover margin pretty small. Since I wassure it would fit by the numbers (and wrong) I decided to buy somethingI could actually sit on first,which turnedout to be a Prophet. So, things like a TALAS and conventional wheelset are now redundant.

 

[uktrailmonster]

I am pretty sure Ventana had it, as it came back with a diferent swingarm. Ventana told me to deal with Cambria in the first place (I called him first), so I am sure he was aware. It just didn't get resolved. Frankly, it matters not to me which half of that team made the mistake, 2 chancesis enough, and I am done. I am just saying it is certainlypossible to have repeated problems, with any manufacturer.

As for the parts: I wanted a simple, single pivot bike. After the Ventana fiasco, I went to a local Santa Cruz dealer to check out Hecklers and Superlights. The Medium Heckler was too short in the top tube even with along stem and I was pushing the standover margin pretty small. Since I wassure it would fit by the numbers (and wrong) I decided to buy somethingI could actually sit on first,which turnedout to be a Prophet. So, things like a TALAS and conventional wheelset are now redundant.

Well I suppose that's the downside of buying from a large bulk reseller. Was it a closeout deal on this frame? I can also see Ventana's reluctance to get involved with you personally, since it's the reseller's responsibility to sort it out. Particularly if the frame was discounted. I wouldn't expect this kind of problem paying full retail price from an approved Ventana dealer.

If the swingarm was bent, the damage was almost certainly done in transit or storage. I don't see how Ventana, or any other manufacturer, can avoid this kind of thing? The bottom line is that Cambria should have replaced the bent swingarm immediately. Anyway, hope you enjoy the Prophet!

 

[cbehnke]

statistics, the lottery, and my share of the jackpot

when all else fails....and you are really bored...use math to examine the probability of an event occurring...it doesn't mean it didn't but at least it gives you some numbers to play with.

if i remember correct from my statistics and operations management classes (which is slept through), you can estimate the statistical probability of 5 frames out of a set of 5 having a defect. the probability is so infinitesimal as to be hard to beleive without serious proof. if a frame has a defect rate of let's say 2%, and you want to estimate the probability of all 5 frames out of a sample set of 5 all having a defect you can estiamate the probability of that event by multiplying 2% x 2% x 2% x 2% x 2%. the estimate is, drumroll please

0.0000000032%

that is a 1 in 320 million chance of happening. i'd play the lottery as soon as possible if i were you.

there are other factors involved that make this story (as told) even less likely. i'd estimate the frame defect rate is way less than 2%. the fact that all five frames were owned by friends also lowers the probability but i don't know how to incorporate that in the equation. and the fact that the frames were probably manufactured and sold at different times again lowers the probablity of this story being true as told by the right honourable gentleman known as soupboy.

i'd say i deserve a 10% portion of any lottery winnings...seeing as how i spurred you to buy the ticket and all...seems only fair.

 

[cbehnke]

statistics TOTALLY refuted

the equations may be wrong in my previous post but what's more important is to not rely on statictics because a 1 in 320 million shot will happen sometimes.....you want proof....here ya go. what on earth was the probability that the hideous ape-looking creature Lyle Lovett would have a shot at marrying (and porking) that sexy little love-monkey Julia Roberts????? that right there should destroy all theories about statistics

 

[CJLED]

I imagine that thefront triangle in my situation is the culprit, as that is the constant. Shipping damage is unlikely since there was damage to the box or 'dent', it was just crooked. I too was surprised that I hadan issue due to Ventana's reputation. But since neither firm seized the opportunity to ensurethat everything was in order on the second go around, I have decided that my dollars will go elsewhere from now on. Closeout or not, Ventana's name was on the frame, and Cambria'son the invoice; someone should have stepped up.

 

[toad]

I have decided that my dollars will go elsewhere from now on.

That sucks, looks like I'll have to send extra dollars to ventana! Better let the wife know.