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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So Im going through the tech manuals for the Marathon line of Zoke shocks, as I browse for a 100mm fork for my new 4" trailbike and I come across the "warnings and general guidelines". Check out Zoke's stated uses:

Cross Country ("XC")/Marathon: Riding along hilly trails where some bumps and smaller
obstacles, such as rocks, roots, or depressions, may be encountered. XC riding does not include jumps or "drops" (riding off rocks, fallen trees or ledges) from any height. XC forks must be used with tires specifically designed for cross country riding, and disk, rim or linear pull brakes.


Some bumps and smaller obstacles MAY be encoutered and you MUST keep you tires on the ground???!!??? So basically they are stating that their 4" forks are good for pretty much smooth fireroads and no more? I think we can all acknowledge that one is not going to do balls out freeriding on a smaller fork, but methinks this description and stated riding limitation is a bit out of whack, even for a 4" fork.

Discuss...........
 

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SpeedThrills said:
So Im going through the tech manuals for the Marathon line of Zoke shocks, as I browse for a 100mm fork for my new 4" trailbike and I come across the "warnings and general guidelines". Check out Zoke's stated uses:

Cross Country ("XC")/Marathon: Riding along hilly trails where some bumps and smaller
obstacles, such as rocks, roots, or depressions, may be encountered. XC riding does not include jumps or "drops" (riding off rocks, fallen trees or ledges) from any height. XC forks must be used with tires specifically designed for cross country riding, and disk, rim or linear pull brakes.


Some bumps and smaller obstacles MAY be encoutered and you MUST keep you tires on the ground???!!??? So basically they are stating that their 4" forks are good for pretty much smooth fireroads and no more? I think we can all acknowledge that one is not going to do balls out freeriding on a smaller fork, but methinks this description and stated riding limitation is a bit out of whack, even for a 4" fork.

Discuss...........
It is legal jargon to cover their arse's - read into it as you may.... or not.....
 

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MattSavage
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SpeedThrills said:
Check out Zoke's stated uses:

Cross Country ("XC")/Marathon: Riding along hilly trails where some bumps and smaller
obstacles, such as rocks, roots, or depressions, may be encountered. XC riding does not include jumps or "drops" (riding off rocks, fallen trees or ledges) from any height. XC forks must be used with tires specifically designed for cross country riding, and disk, rim or linear pull brakes.


Some bumps and smaller obstacles MAY be encoutered and you MUST keep you tires on the ground???!!??? So basically they are stating that their 4" forks are good for pretty much smooth fireroads and no more? I think we can all acknowledge that one is not going to do balls out freeriding on a smaller fork, but methinks this description and stated riding limitation is a bit out of whack, even for a 4" fork.

Discuss...........
"Cross Country ("XC")/Marathon: Riding along hilly trails where some bumps and smaller
obstacles, such as rocks, roots, or depressions, may be encountered. "

Sounds like a typical xc single track to me. I think "jumps" refers to manmade dirt jump type jumping, not popping off obstacles in the middle of the trail.

Not really left to our interpretation at all, though. Definately legal jargon to protect them when some stupid kid breaks his neck because he put a Marathon on his Banshee and jumped off his friends parents roof and the stanchions snapped off. All because some other guy on a "Marzocchi" did it.
 

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SpeedThrills said:
So Im going through the tech manuals for the Marathon line of Zoke shocks, as I browse for a 100mm fork for my new 4" trailbike and I come across the "warnings and general guidelines". Check out Zoke's stated uses:

Cross Country ("XC")/Marathon: Riding along hilly trails where some bumps and smaller
obstacles, such as rocks, roots, or depressions, may be encountered. XC riding does not include jumps or "drops" (riding off rocks, fallen trees or ledges) from any height. XC forks must be used with tires specifically designed for cross country riding, and disk, rim or linear pull brakes.


Some bumps and smaller obstacles MAY be encoutered and you MUST keep you tires on the ground???!!??? So basically they are stating that their 4" forks are good for pretty much smooth fireroads and no more? I think we can all acknowledge that one is not going to do balls out freeriding on a smaller fork, but methinks this description and stated riding limitation is a bit out of whack, even for a 4" fork.

Discuss...........
What's funny is the XC bike reviews in the mags. I'm looking at one right now (MBA Nov. 05) with a review of the Jamis Dragon hardtail XC bike. The story opens with a full-page color photo of the test rider catching some air. Of course the caption says it all:
"Expert skills: The Dragon is not intended for big air. Only highly-skilled riders (meaning they know how to land properly) should attempt flowing the trail like this. It is proof that the Dragon is a tough bike."
 

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I don't think it's out of whack at all....

, "Some bumps and smaller obstacles MAY be encoutered and you MUST keep you tires on the ground???!!??? So basically they are stating that their 4" forks are good for pretty much smooth fireroads and no more? I think we can all acknowledge that one is not going to do balls out freeriding on a smaller fork, but methinks this description and stated riding limitation is a bit out of whack, even for a 4" fork."
sounds like typical XC riding to me. The problem that we have is that we tend to buy the WRONG tools for the job at hand and then blame the tool maker if it breaks! And as lawsuit happy as this country has become it makes sense to cover your nuticles with a warning like that. I've seen questions and recomendations on this forum that have scared the crap outa me! People telling newbs that it's okay to jump their OEM MX Comp, or one clown that told of how he does 3 to 5 foot drops "all the time" with his EX Pro! Talk about the wrong tool for the job!!!!

It's really pretty simple, what Zocch is talking about is that their Marathon/XC forks are NOT designed for anything but XC type riding!!!! If your deffinition of XC includes drops of more than 2 feet, jumps other than hopping over a log in the trail, rocks, roots, etc., then their XC forks are NOT the forks to use. Simple as that. Sure the fork will probably handle some of it for a while. But there are WAY better forks that Zocch produces specifically for that type of riding. So why get your panities in a wad over how Zocch recommends that their forks should be used. Or how they chose to convey that recomendation. What, you think they don't know what they are talking about or what? I mean they did design and build the fork, they should know right? Granted it is a legal statement and probably over stated. But the idea is to warn potential customers that the fork is an XC fork and not suitable for other more demanding riding styles. So that's WTF Zocch is talking about. We all know that most 4" forks will handle more than that. We also know that a skilled and knowledgable rider can drop 5 footers on an XC hard tail and never hurt it. But the KEY WORD there is SKILLED!!!! You have to look at it from Zocchs point of veiw. They have to reduce that warning/recommendation to the simplest terms so that even the least knowledgable newb will get the idea.

You are simply over reacting to their statement of suitable use. With your knowledge of the sport you should know better. But just be aware that if you break a Marathon or an MX Comp doing a drop you'll probably get refered to that statement should you seek warranty reparations. Yes Zocch is covering their a$$. But can you blame them?

Good Dirt
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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The other BIG problem that marzocchi was having was that the big bike companies, specialized, giant, trek, etc, were buying the cheap low-end marzocchi XC forks and putting them on the cheaper-low end freeride and dirt-jump bikes. No matter what the cost of those bikes was, they should NEVER have been speced with an XC fork that's not intended for jumps and drops. Marzocchi can't control what the companies do with them after they buy so many thousand forks, but marzocchi refused to warrenty many of these due to this fact. Companies like giant were putting the MZ forks on their STP 2 bikes (decent build, not a bad bike for the money, except for the fork). That kind of bike is obviously going to be abused, but it was speced with the "MZ" series to save money, instead of the correct tool which would have been the DJ series fork.

This is one reason that marzocchi is pretty adamant about the "warnings" and "uses" now.
 

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Squash,
Why such a harsh reaction? Wake up your sense of humor and read Zoke's description again:

"Riding along hilly trails where some bumps and smaller
obstacles, such as rocks, roots, or depressions, may be encountered."


Can't you just hear the little birdies chirping as one rolls along the hilly trails? Oops, here comes a small depression! Oh, oh--I spy a small rock on the horizon! Careful, lest we encounter it!

We all know what they are saying and that it's a CYA, but come on, it's funny!!!
 

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"El Whatever"
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While I agree it's all CYA, I gotta admit they're doing the right thing.

See... I really think that there are lots of uneducated customers who use their fork for other purpouses than intended.

In the measure we have more educated users, there'll be lighter and better forks. Why?? Because the factory will not have to overbuild them. Only the Jumping and extreme use ones will remain as irons but those intended for trail riding and XC will be lighter because people will not use them for crazy jumps.

Same with frames. How many people had been jumping the Giant's NRS's or XTC's??

Food for thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Squash said:
, "Some bumps and smaller obstacles MAY be encoutered and you MUST keep you tires on the ground???!!??? So basically they are stating that their 4" forks are good for pretty much smooth fireroads and no more? I think we can all acknowledge that one is not going to do balls out freeriding on a smaller fork, but methinks this description and stated riding limitation is a bit out of whack, even for a 4" fork."
sounds like typical XC riding to me. The problem that we have is that we tend to buy the WRONG tools for the job at hand and then blame the tool maker if it breaks! And as lawsuit happy as this country has become it makes sense to cover your nuticles with a warning like that. I've seen questions and recomendations on this forum that have scared the crap outa me! People telling newbs that it's okay to jump their OEM MX Comp, or one clown that told of how he does 3 to 5 foot drops "all the time" with his EX Pro! Talk about the wrong tool for the job!!!!
With this I agree with you...now lets have some fun.....

It's really pretty simple, what Zocch is talking about is that their Marathon/XC forks are NOT designed for anything but XC type riding!!!!
But what they are describing is NOT typical XC riding. Riding where you MAY encounter bumps and rocks? And the fork is not designed for jumps or drops of ANY size? Not five feet, not two feet, not ONE foot. Not six inches. NONE. Name me the last time you did a ride, even an XCone where your two wheels stayed on the ground the entire time. I dare you.

If your deffinition of XC includes drops of more than 2 feet, jumps other than hopping over a log in the trail, rocks, roots, etc., then their XC forks are NOT the forks to use.
But what you describe above is OUTSIDE of the fork's intended use as stated by the manufacturer. Remember...NO jumps, NO drops, NO nothing.

Sure the fork will probably handle some of it for a while. But there are WAY better forks that Zocch produces specifically for that type of riding.
And they are 5-6" forks. Not a good fit for a 4" trailbike. And why does Zoke put this big hole in their intended usage. Fox and RS both state that their 4" offerings are XC/AM.

So why get your panities in a wad over how Zocch recommends that their forks should be used. Or how they chose to convey that recomendation.
Im asking a question and criticising how a popular fork manufacturer defines their products. On a mountain bike discussion board entitled "Lets talk about shocks". Youre right, WTF was I thinking posting something like that HERE??!!??

What, you think they don't know what they are talking about or what? I mean they did design and build the fork, they should know right?
Im not talking about their design philosophy. Im talking about how they are classifying a riding style and how completely out of touch it is. Maybe in your world a $700 coil fork that has almost 5" of travel shouldnt be taken off fire roads. The rest of the riding planet feels differently.

Granted it is a legal statement and probably over stated. But the idea is to warn potential customers that the fork is an XC fork and not suitable for other more demanding riding styles. So that's WTF Zocch is talking about. We all know that most 4" forks will handle more than that. We also know that a skilled and knowledgable rider can drop 5 footers on an XC hard tail and never hurt it. But the KEY WORD there is SKILLED!!!! You have to look at it from Zocchs point of veiw. They have to reduce that warning/recommendation to the simplest terms so that even the least knowledgable newb will get the idea.
I do understand this, contrary to what you think. But they have gone SO FAR the other way, they are scaring off their customers, including those skilled riders. Either that, or they designed this fork for racing and very light duty only. RS and Fox didnt, but maybe Zoke did. Their choice. But that's pretty silly.

You are simply over reacting to their statement of suitable use. With your knowledge of the sport you should know better. But just be aware that if you break a Marathon or an MX Comp doing a drop you'll probably get refered to that statement should you seek warranty reparations. Yes Zocch is covering their a$$. But can you blame them?
No I'm not...Im asking and commenting on a stated use that seems off. Read it again. "Hilly trails where bumps and rocks MAY be encountered." Look...Im not trying fit a round peg in a square hole and take this thing above what its designed for. Im just saying what Zoke states its designed for doesnt seem in line with other forks in its class. Bumps and rocks MAY be encountered.....ZERO airtime....That doesnt seem a bit "light" to you, even for cross country?
 

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MattSavage
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Warp2003 said:
Same with frames. How many people had been jumping the Giant's NRS's or XTC's??

Food for thought.
Ha, Ha! I was on Ebay a few weeks ago and this schmuck was selling his NRS with a Super T on it, MRP chain guide, Single Tracks with 2.5's, full on 3" DH rig!

It was so dope! Funny thing was, he actually got about 900 bucks for it!

Talk about wrong tools for the job...
 

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MattSavage
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"Cross Country (“XC”)/Marathon: Riding along hilly trails where some bumps and smaller
obstacles, such as rocks, roots, or depressions, may be encountered. XC riding does not include jumps or ”drops” (riding off rocks, fallen trees or ledges) from any height. XC forks must be used with tires specifically designed for cross country riding, and disk, rim or linear pull brakes. "

This fork was specifically designed for Bend, OR. Heh, Heh...

I ride my 6" trail bike around here and I'm getting smoked by girls on their cyclocross bikes.
 

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My rant is why the heck are the warning labels so difficult to remove!!!

On my AM1 there are two of them the size of credit card and it took a utility knife to chip them off! They're almost as bad as the registration stickers on a license plate!
 

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MattSavage
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ahimanic said:
My rant is why the heck are the warning labels so difficult to remove!!!

On my AM1 there are two of them the size of credit card and it took a utility knife to chip them off! They're almost as bad as the registration stickers on a license plate!
Use a blowdryer or a heat gun, they should peel right off, if not curl up on their own.
 

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SpeedThrills said:
And they are 5-6" forks. Not a good fit for a 4" trailbike. And why does Zoke put this big hole in their intended usage. Fox and RS both state that their 4" offerings are XC/AM.
Well, the industry is passing you up, it's not marzocchi's fault. 4" of travel is XC to me, not "trail". To me, "trail" means the ability to take a few smaller drops and jumps, and it can be ridden very agressively. I don't know of any 4" bikes that really fit that description.

You might want to check around and see if anyone still has the 100-130mm marzocchi all-mountain. The 100mm setting would work good for your purpose, since you are intending more than just "XC". I'm not sure if they are continuing the 100-130mm model for 2006, but they definitely had some for 2005.

Untill 2005, fox only made 1 fork chassi. Same chassi, but different internals. This is why the fox "XC" fork works fine for "AM", and vice versa. The chassi was built for the 5" vanilla fork, and also used for the 80mm float. Different travel fox forks just have internals spacers rearranged. This is why the 4" version is ok for "AM" use, because they're all the same fork.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Jayem said:
Well, the industry is passing you up, it's not marzocchi's fault. 4" of travel is XC to me, not "trail". To me, "trail" means the ability to take a few smaller drops and jumps, and it can be ridden very agressively. I don't know of any 4" bikes that really fit that description.
Excuse me, but I think Im a bit more in tune than you are. Drops and jumps are freeriding, my friend, not trail riding.

TThere are no shorter travel bikes that can handle "trail"? Turner Burner? Intense Tracer?

I understand XC and light trail is different than heavy duty trail and freeride. Again, this all comes out of Zokes assertion that XC involves two wheels on the ground at ALL times (no exceptions!) and the bike be ridden on trails that might not even have "bumps or rocks" on it!
 

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Chris2fur said:
Squash,
Why such a harsh reaction? Wake up your sense of humor and read Zoke's description again:

"Riding along hilly trails where some bumps and smaller
obstacles, such as rocks, roots, or depressions, may be encountered."


Can't you just hear the little birdies chirping as one rolls along the hilly trails? Oops, here comes a small depression! Oh, oh--I spy a small rock on the horizon! Careful, lest we encounter it!

We all know what they are saying and that it's a CYA, but come on, it's funny!!!
Actually, the depressions in the trail are the worst.... But I keep a couple of Prozacs in my pack just in case... Pop them and wash them down with a quick drink of water and no more depressions on the trail. :D

Brian
 

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Chris2fur said:
See--even the official Marzocchi guy can see the humor in it!
With over 10 years in the bike biz, I have to have a sense of humor...

But like several had mentioned, it's all about CYA.... It's easy to laugh at these things (or ***** about them..) but when you find yourself involved in a lawsuit, you would learn to like them..

Brian
 

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mattsavage said:
Ha, Ha! I was on Ebay a few weeks ago and this schmuck was selling his NRS with a Super T on it, MRP chain guide, Single Tracks with 2.5's, full on 3" DH rig!

It was so dope! Funny thing was, he actually got about 900 bucks for it!

Talk about wrong tools for the job...
NRS with a Super T!!!!???? That I've got to see.

Sounds like something on American Chopper.
 
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