[Hbnel5on]

I see more and more of the 2.5 vigilante and judge rear. These are massively heavy tires at around 2500g for the pair. Compared to a 1900g maxxis combo... is the grip just that good? Do the tires roll so well you don’t notice it? I’m keen to try some but can’t talk myself into strapping another pound of rotating weight to my bike.

 

[ColinL]

I see more and more of the 2.5 vigilante and judge rear. These are massively heavy tires at around 2500g for the pair. Compared to a 1900g maxxis combo... is the grip just that good? Do the tires roll so well you don't notice it? I'm keen to try some but can't talk myself into strapping another pound of rotating weight to my bike.

Where are you riding, what kind of terrain and are you destroying tires or could you expect to get full life out of a Maxxis EXO?

EXO is not really that tough in rocky terrain, especially sharp edges. Double Down is tougher, but in my usage, still not as tough as Bontrager SE series and heavier.

I can't speak for your TCS Tough but a heavy tire is more about durability, not traction.

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[FastBanana]

I see more and more of the 2.5 vigilante and judge rear. These are massively heavy tires at around 2500g for the pair. Compared to a 1900g maxxis combo... is the grip just that good? Do the tires roll so well you don't notice it? I'm keen to try some but can't talk myself into strapping another pound of rotating weight to my bike.

Haven't ridden the Judge, but I currently have

DH Convicts
2.6 Tough/High Vigilante (B9er)
Toug/High 2.4 trail boss pair with 2.5 Vigilante

All these tires are beastly. Heavy, but stable and tons of grip. I notice the weight, but in the best way, the bike is stable.

Compared to 2.6 Grid Butchers, which felt totally out of control on my Enduro. Too light, bouncy, etc. Tread pattern was good and they climbed well, but the casing are important.

I guess it depends on how you ride. All my riding is North East stuff (steep, rocks, wet roots, burning rotors) so grip is always the priority. When I lived in Colorado, it was all about getting rims to live through the ride. The only way I would run lighter tires, would be for a purpose built XC bike, or riding in much tamer terrain.

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[Hbnel5on]

Where are you riding, what kind of terrain and are you destroying tires or could you expect to get full life out of a Maxxis EXO?

EXO is not really that tough in rocky terrain, especially sharp edges. Double Down is tougher, but in my usage, still not as tough as Bontrager SE series and heavier.

I can't speak for your TCS Tough but a heavy tire is more about durability, not traction.

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My rides consist of some back country east coast gnar usually. Sharp rocks usually, big days 4000+ ft rides, but equal descents.

I can't get anything like a rekon, griffin, or ardent to last. The tread either gets shralped or I get a snake bite. But a set of minions will hold
up and feel great since I'm a Clyde the extra sidewall support is wonderful.

Previously I loved the bonty xr4. But would run through those like Crazy.

 

[MSU Alum]

My rides consist of some back country east coast gnar usually. Sharp rocks usually, big days 4000+ ft rides, but equal descents.

I can't get anything like a rekon, griffin, or ardent to last. The tread either gets shralped or I get a snake bite. But a set of minions will hold
up and feel great since I'm a Clyde the extra sidewall support is wonderful.

Previously I loved the bonty xr4. But would run through those like Crazy.

I'm about 160 lbs suited up and hydrated and really don't believe the hype on "rotating mass". Have you ever had your bike up on a stand and spun the tire? It's pretty easy, regardless of tire size/weight. If your rides consist of sequential accelerations from 3 to 30 MPH, that's a different story, but most of my climbs are a steady 5 to 10 MPH or so. Maintaining a speed on rotating mass isn't the factor that acceleration is.

I went from low mass 29x2.35 Nobby Nics to a 2.6 DHF front/2.5 Aggressor rear and my climb times have gotten faster, riding in the Wasatch. Carcass design, pressure decisions, tread design and grip requirements all have a much greater effect on rolling resistance IME than weight.

That doesn't mean the WTB tires are fast, just that weight alone isn't the deciding factor.

 

[jeremy3220]

I recommend something with an EXO+ casing and a lightweight for insert like Rimpact. Adding more tread rubber isn't going to help much with cuts and sidewall support.

 

[PurpleMtnSlayer]

I recommend something with an EXO+ casing and a lightweight for insert like Rimpact. Adding more tread rubber isn't going to help much with cuts and sidewall support.

This is an awesome combo! I recently switched from cushcore to rimpact and couldn't be happier. I still prefer double down for the rear casing with rimpact.

I would like to try the beefy and tough vigilantes tho.

 

[Adodero]

I've been running their tires for a little while and just put a set on a friend's bike, as well.

On my bike, I went from a DHF 2.5WT/DHRII 2.3 rear to a Vigilante 2.5 Light/High Grip and Trail Boss 2.4 Light/Fast in the rear. As you said, it's a pretty significant weight increase over what I was running before, but I can't say that I notice any increase in effort or rolling resistance, in fact, I experienced the opposite. The combination is faster and grippier in every way, except straight line braking in the rear. The Vigilante corners a lot better, tracks better, and has a much less squared off profile. The Trail Boss is a faster rolling tread, but still manages to grip really well.

The only thing that worries me is the tire wear. I had a post a few months ago that indicated my Vigilante looked like it was starting to give it up at around 500 miles, but that wasn't the case. It looks exactly the same now as it did then, I even compared the knob height to a new one and it was only around 1/2mm off. So the Vigilante seems to wear fine. The Trail Boss, though, wore down it's center knobs after about 400 miles on the back or so. It still gripped reasonably well, but it was essentially a SS at that point and would drift more in corners.

I haven't ridden the Judge yet, I put one on a bike the other day, he likes it and says it works out great, but I expect it rolls pretty poorly given the tread.

Personally, I've added and removed inserts, along with heavy tires, I don't feel that the whole tire weight thing is that big of a difference. The tread seems to matter more than the rotational weight IMO, especially once you get moving.

 

[Jayem]

I notice this more the bigger the wheel size, so my DH 2.5 minion setup that I used to run on my enduro 29er was crazy slow on trails and honestly not that hot DHing due to the speed that was bled in each turn due to the gyroscopic rigidity in space principle. Getting that kind of weight that far from the wheel starts to make a massive difference IME. Not nearly as bad with the same tire construction at 27.5. Still slower than I'd like if 2.5 F and R, but if you really want to make it slow, big meaty tires (the kind you want for DHing) on 29er will do it.

That said, I liked the 2.3 vigilante, thought it was decent. Ran it for a while.

 

[fredcook]

I see more and more of the 2.5 vigilante and judge rear. These are massively heavy tires at around 2500g for the pair. Compared to a 1900g maxxis combo... is the grip just that good? Do the tires roll so well you don't notice it? I'm keen to try some but can't talk myself into strapping another pound of rotating weight to my bike.

Haven't ridden WTB's Vigilante / Judge combo, but do ride a Vigilante / Trail Boss combo. Great combo for what I ride. I agree with FastBanana... stable and tons of grip. And very predictable.

You mention weight... I noticed that the Judge only comes in Tough/High Grip and Tough Fast Rolling casing options. Those casings are heavier than the additional Light/High Grip and Light/Fast Rolling casing options the Vigilante and Trail Boss come in. Trail Boss Tough/Fast = 1040g versus Light/Fast = 778. That's over a 1/2 pound. I wonder if WTB will come out with a Light version of the Judge.

I run Vigilante Light/High Grip on front, Trail Boss Light/Fast Rolling on the rear. That combo (27.5) comes in at 1678 grams. Honestly, I've found sidewalls on the WTB Light casing to be tougher than any Maxxis or Kenda so far, so I'm not sure I'd bother with the heavier Tough casing. Just my experience...

 

[almazing]

WTB tires are MTB's best kept secret... If you're not worried about the weight. I'm running 2.5 Tough Casing Vigilantes front and rear, with the front having high grip, and the rear fast rolling on my Slash. 2.5s measure true to size with 30mm IW wheels.

I've always liked the MM-style tread pattern with tall, sharp knobs, and fairly open with a lot of negative space. It's a great all-conditions tires and it only really falters in pavement, hardpack, and wet rocks and roots. Anywhere else, and it shines. The casing is incredibly thick and cut resistant. Which to me, is the most important. Maxxis DD and Schwalbe SG don't hold a candle to WTB's Tough casing as I've torn the tread and sidewall area of Maxxis and Schwalbe. I don't use inserts because I pump my tires to reasonable pressures.

WTB tires are heavy. No question about it. But so far, after about 200-ish miles on my set, I've had no problems with flats or cuts. They're damn near indestructible for a non-wire bead tire. You sorta get used to the weight. You'll get stronger just by riding with them for long periods of time.

 

[Guy.Ford]

...

 

[Klainmeister]

Running the 2.5 Verdict (2.6 measured) and 2.5 vigilante setup currently on my enduro bike and here's a few thoughts:

Compared to my DHF EXO/Aggressor DD combo there are hardly any rim dings like I was getting before. Cornering traction, particularly in loose, is excellent and while they squirm on hardpack, it's predictable enough. Being able to huck straight into a rock pile and know you'll come out the other side unscathed is a revelation.

Climbing is where I'm surprised....I'm as fast or faster with these boat anchors on. They seem to roll better and I just haven't had anymore fatigue. Grip is solid going up.

The sort of special sauce I've learned is the damping qualities. Because the casings are so much burlier, you run lower pressures and the compounds offer some really good damping characteristics. The small trail buzz seems much more muted and cornering seems more stable.

Overall, if you ride aggressive enough and have plenty of sharp rocks, then they are totally worth the weight.

 

[voghan]

I'm running the 2.6 versions of the Vigilante and Trailboss for the past couple months. They have been a very solid set of tires for me. I like the Trailboss more than any of the Maxxis tires I run as a rear. The Vigilante is a solid front tire that will hook up after sliding a bit on you. Have faith and it will deliver. The weight of these tires was a concern but they have good traction, provide a consistent feel and have been durable. I think after a couple rides I didn't notice the weight but I could see if you were going on long epic rides, these might wear you done faster.

 

[desertwheeler]

I'm running the 2.6 versions of the Vigilante and Trailboss for the past couple months. They have been a very solid set of tires for me. I like the Trailboss more than any of the Maxxis tires I run as a rear. The Vigilante is a solid front tire that will hook up after sliding a bit on you. Have faith and it will deliver. The weight of these tires was a concern but they have good traction, provide a consistent feel and have been durable. I think after a couple rides I didn't notice the weight but I could see if you were going on long epic rides, these might wear you done faster.

I had been running the same combo for a while. The tires have lots of grip but in hard pack is where they dont shine very well. The tall knobs on the TB would fold over and the Vigilante held its own. I plan to use the Vigilante on burly rides or days in the mountains. I swapped both out for a Hans dampf front and Nevegal 2 rear and the bike was so much faster and less tiring. If I rode lot of loose trails they would be great but they were too much tire for most of my riding.

 

[voghan]

I had been running the same combo for a while. The tires have lots of grip but in hard pack is where they dont shine very well. The tall knobs on the TB would fold over and the Vigilante held its own. I plan to use the Vigilante on burly rides or days in the mountains. I swapped both out for a Hans dampf front and Nevegal 2 rear and the bike was so much faster and less tiring. If I rode lot of loose trails they would be great but they were too much tire for most of my riding.

I can see how this setup wouldn't work well on hard pack. I tend to ride more loose over hard and find that these tires work pretty well for those conditions. These tires are not the fasted out of the gate but they do hold speed really well. I know the Trailboss is kind of described as their aggressive semi slick but I don't think that is the case. The trailboss feels like it would be between the HDR2 and the Aggressor in the maxxis lineup.

 

[desertwheeler]

I can tell the vigilante doesn’t roll great. I swapped it out for a Hans Dampf and could feel the bike roll better. Then I swapped the tb out and it was another big improvement.

I tried the TB on the front and it rolled good up there but I found if the knobs couldn’t dig in then they would fold over in a turn under my weight. I loved the way they handled when pointed down and you needed the grip tho!

 

[ColinL]

I can tell the vigilante doesn't roll great. I swapped it out for a Hans Dampf and could feel the bike roll better. Then I swapped the tb out and it was another big improvement.

I tried the TB on the front and it rolled good up there but I found if the knobs couldn't dig in then they would fold over in a turn under my weight. I loved the way they handled when pointed down and you needed the grip tho!

I haven't ridden the Trail Boss, Convict or Verdict. But I 100% agree that the Vigilante is a slow roller. One of the slowest I've used in a long time - like, Nevegal slow. I'm sure it's the lack of ramped knobs, the transition knobs, the sipes. The very things that make it super grippy make it slow AF.

 

[Klainmeister]

Eh? Nevegal slow? No way. Just ran it back to back against my Aggressor and it's on par, maybe a bit slower on road climbs.

 

[desertwheeler]

I haven't ridden the Trail Boss, Convict or Verdict. But I 100% agree that the Vigilante is a slow roller. One of the slowest I've used in a long time - like, Nevegal slow. I'm sure it's the lack of ramped knobs, the transition knobs, the sipes. The very things that make it super grippy make it slow AF.

Nevegal 2 is no slow roller. I don't doubt that the older ones were tho. It rolls way better than a trailboss.