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Waiting to exhale.
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am in love with the style of sycip and they are only a few hours drive from my house. They where cool on the phone and told me if I could come down to the shop they would size me up for the frame. I like that alot, the ability to meet the builders and have them size me. My only concern is that they seem to deal mostly with steel frames and I am a bit concerned that I may not get years and years of titanium welding experience and perfection like with builders like seven. Also, I think I may actually save some money going with seven ($2600-no ca. tax) as opposed to 3k for sycip and the dreaded ca. tax. I have seen plenty of pics of the weld jobs on sevens and they are perfect. Sycip has some poor quality pics but, it looks like their welds are kind of lumpy? What do you guys think?
 

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Have you talked with Seven yet? You should at least give them a call before you decide.

As for Sycip, I have not seen a Ti bike. You should visit and ask to see one.
 

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hands up who wants to die
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I'd go with Sycip myself if I were spending the coin for some of the same reasons you mentioned.

Seven has a bit of anti-cachet in my mind. I wouldn't be caught dead on one.

-r
 

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are you kidding?

SMOKEY said:
I am in love with the style of sycip and they are only a few hours drive from my house. They where cool on the phone and told me if I could come down to the shop they would size me up for the frame. I like that alot, the ability to meet the builders and have them size me. My only concern is that they seem to deal mostly with steel frames and I am a bit concerned that I may not get years and years of titanium welding experience and perfection like with builders like seven. Also, I think I may actually save some money going with seven ($2600-no ca. tax) as opposed to 3k for sycip and the dreaded ca. tax. I have seen plenty of pics of the weld jobs on sevens and they are perfect. Sycip has some poor quality pics but, it looks like their welds are kind of lumpy? What do you guys think?
it's a can't loose proposition. Seven is a medium size company meaning you will probably get it on time or close there to. And no doubt it will be a beautiful frame. The Sycip boyz-----Jeremey-----Jerome and Moe are just a small shop so the wait may be......

In regard to the aesthetics....again either way its gonna be a beauty.


VTW
 

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Years and years...

SMOKEY said:
I am in love with the style of sycip and they are only a few hours drive from my house. They where cool on the phone and told me if I could come down to the shop they would size me up for the frame. I like that alot, the ability to meet the builders and have them size me. My only concern is that they seem to deal mostly with steel frames and I am a bit concerned that I may not get years and years of titanium welding experience and perfection like with builders like seven. Also, I think I may actually save some money going with seven ($2600-no ca. tax) as opposed to 3k for sycip and the dreaded ca. tax. I have seen plenty of pics of the weld jobs on sevens and they are perfect. Sycip has some poor quality pics but, it looks like their welds are kind of lumpy? What do you guys think?
I'm fairly certain (though you should check with the Sycip bros themselves) that Jim Kish does the ti work for Sycip. If this is true, you can be well-assured that Jim will fire you up a ti rig comparable to what Seven puts out. In addition to welding his own killer frames, Kish does the ti work for Retrotec and teaches framebuilding courses at UBI in Ashland, Oregon. I've got a Kish Ti SS frame, and the worksmanship IMHO is superb. Cheers.
 

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try driving your car less
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SMOKEY said:
I am in love with the style of sycip and they are only a few hours drive from my house. They where cool on the phone and told me if I could come down to the shop they would size me up for the frame. I like that alot, the ability to meet the builders and have them size me. My only concern is that they seem to deal mostly with steel frames and I am a bit concerned that I may not get years and years of titanium welding experience and perfection like with builders like seven. Also, I think I may actually save some money going with seven ($2600-no ca. tax) as opposed to 3k for sycip and the dreaded ca. tax. I have seen plenty of pics of the weld jobs on sevens and they are perfect. Sycip has some poor quality pics but, it looks like their welds are kind of lumpy? What do you guys think?
Why not steel? I would go local... and I would talk to both Seven and Sycip about the steel vs ti decision for your riding needs/wants.

for ti vs steel check out what kish says...

http://www.kishbike.com/materials.htm
 

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Waiting to exhale.
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
jh_on_the_cape said:
Why not steel? I would go local... and I would talk to both Seven and Sycip about the steel vs ti decision for your riding needs/wants.

for ti vs steel check out what kish says...

http://www.kishbike.com/materials.htm

I could really go either way. steel or Ti. I dig paint and I also dig the industrial look of ti. I don't live in wet weather areas so rust ain't an issue. I am looking at this frame purchase as a life long investment, I hope to have this frame last me years and years. My only priorities are a stiff BB yet comfy ride over the small bumps. I would like a light weight frame, but I have a feeling steel will only be a few ounces heavier than ti. going local is really sounding good.
 

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SMOKEY said:
I could really go either way. steel or Ti. I dig paint and I also dig the industrial look of ti. I don't live in wet weather areas so rust ain't an issue. I am looking at this frame purchase as a life long investment, I hope to have this frame last me years and years. My only priorities are a stiff BB yet comfy ride over the small bumps. I would like a light weight frame, but I have a feeling steel will only be a few ounces heavier than ti. going local is really sounding good.
my frame is ti, but i bought it used. i think a used ti hardtail with an ENO hub was the right choice for me. something to consider. you can get a ti bike and have it refinished and it will look like new and last a long time. just make sure it fits.
if i went new, i would really consider steel. it's about half the price. but that would only be for a totally custom fit.
 

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climb
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If you buy steel, it won't _have_ to last years and years, you can buy ~3 Fe frames for the price on 1 Ti frame.
 

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After my experience with Vulture,

I would go for the custom fit...
I'm lucky enough to live near Wade and was able to get measured for my frame and was able to watch him build it !
If I was looking at a Ti frame I would consider a Kish or Desalvo. Both of them have great style, service and welding experience.
 

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Waiting to exhale.
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Just spoke with a dude from seven on the phone..... the choice gets harder. Its been a while since i have been able to call a place of business and NOT feel rushed. I am impressed with the level of detail they answered ALL of my questions with. He didn't say it so black and white but, I was left with the impression that ti will give me the ride I am looking for. I would like to save a buck or two if possible so steel is not out of the picture just yet. I am waiting for someone to tell me steel will give me as good a ride as ti.
 

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HIYAH
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SMOKEY said:
Just spoke with a dude from seven on the phone..... the choice gets harder. Its been a while since i have been able to call a place of business and NOT feel rushed. I am impressed with the level of detail they answered ALL of my questions with. He didn't say it so black and white but, I was left with the impression that ti will give me the ride I am looking for. I would like to save a buck or two if possible so steel is not out of the picture just yet. I am waiting for someone to tell me steel will give me as good a ride as ti.
Steel will give you as good a ride as ti. Seriously, depends on the workmanship but at the level you are looking at, it will. This is from experience.
 

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I have seen/ ridden a Ti SyCip and

I own four steel SyCip's (saving for a fifth). Titanium makes a beautiful frame but, I like the choices in tubing you get with good steel. For instance, I wanted my Diesel (SS) to be stiff in the BB and compliant in the rear triangle, no problem. I wanted my Pave to be compliant all around, they did it! Tell the builder what you want out of your frame and they will build what you want.

I may be biased but, working with Jay and Jeremy (SyCip) was/ is a dream.

Good luck in your decision1

(Diesel, Double Dribble, Javaboy and a Pave)
 

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hispanic mechanic
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Who'd you speak with?

SMOKEY said:
Just spoke with a dude from seven on the phone..... the choice gets harder. Its been a while since i have been able to call a place of business and NOT feel rushed. I am impressed with the level of detail they answered ALL of my questions with. He didn't say it so black and white but, I was left with the impression that ti will give me the ride I am looking for. I would like to save a buck or two if possible so steel is not out of the picture just yet. I am waiting for someone to tell me steel will give me as good a ride as ti.
I used to work for a Seven dealer, and I'd ride one of their frames in a heartbeat. But for my money, I don't think Ti rides nicer than steel. The only Ti frame that I'd buy at this point is a Matt Chester, and that has more to do with him than the material.
Here's what it comes down to- you can build a great riding bike out of either. Hell, if you're billy-bad-a$$ frame meister, you could prolly even build a nice ride out of Al.
Steel is way cheaper, the variety of tubing diameter/wall thickness/butting is greater than what's readily available in Ti, and the weight's awfully close. Oh, and as far as durability goes, I've seen some steel frames that have been ridden hard for 20+ years, untreated. Rust is more of a marketing ploy by Al and Ti proponents than a real issue.
It really is more about the builder, in my opinion. Seven does stellar work, and are big enough to have access to materials and processes that most don't. SyCip does great work, too, but they're really small, so maybe they can't get the exact down tube, or what have you, that would be perfect.
Honestly? As victorthewombat said, you can't lose.

the los
 

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SNGLSPD
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Diesel said:
I own four steel SyCip's (saving for a fifth). Titanium makes a beautiful frame but, I like the choices in tubing you get with good steel. For instance, I wanted my Diesel (SS) to be stiff in the BB and compliant in the rear triangle, no problem. I wanted my Pave to be compliant all around, they did it! Tell the builder what you want out of your frame and they will build what you want. )
I made the move from steel to Ti and I was surprised how much more forgiving of a ride steel is.There is very little weight difference steel to Ti either.I am happily on a steel bike again but find myself lusting for another Ti bike with no valid reason whatsoever.
Steel vs. Ti I think they're both are great,you will be happy either way.
Go with the local guys,that's an easy choice.
 

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drinker
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first and foremost, from the sounds of things here, you're wanting a good frame here, obviously fit is #1 concern and a local builder is always, i feel, the better choice. they can measure you, your old bike, hear what you have to say about what you didn't like about that bike, and what you did. and in the fitting stages the builder will also get a feel for how you ride, what sort of components (fork and stem sizes for instance). that's not to say 7 can't do these things, as i know a local rider that feels his seven fits him better then his frame from the local custom builder did.

frame material....does not dictate the ride. the design and use of the material does. aluminum harsh? anyone who tells you that has never riden a vitus. steel heavy? we all know that to be a lie. Ti magical? maybe, but remember airbournes? my point is, just because a frame is welded (or glued) from a certain material, doesn't mean it automatically has certain characterisitics.

no matter what; with those 2 builders you'll end up with something you're going to love. steel, ti; 7 or sycip
 

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SMOKEY said:
Just spoke with a dude from seven on the phone..... the choice gets harder. Its been a while since i have been able to call a place of business and NOT feel rushed. I am impressed with the level of detail they answered ALL of my questions with. He didn't say it so black and white but, I was left with the impression that ti will give me the ride I am looking for. I would like to save a buck or two if possible so steel is not out of the picture just yet. I am waiting for someone to tell me steel will give me as good a ride as ti.
it might make a difference if you can find a local seven dealer who is good and can do a really good fitting. they are who will deal with any warranty issues and will also build it up for you.

seven does steel, too.

face it SMOKEY... you cannot go wrong! make some phonecalls and visits to local dealer and builder... and decide over a nice sunset bowl...

i would go with seven... because they are local to me!

whatever you get, you must get a paintjob that lives up to your name...
 

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Sycip. Local and you like the style of the frame. And you certainly CAN paint Ti. Most folks only paint parts of it.

Set up an appointment to go see the folks at Sycip. Take enough money for a deposit. Tour the place, meet everybody, maybe ride some bikes. Check 'em out.

If you come back home with the money, then go with Seven or somebuddy else.
 

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motion of ocean, not size of ship

KgB said:
I made the move from steel to Ti and I was surprised how much more forgiving of a ride steel is.There is very little weight difference steel to Ti either.I am happily on a steel bike again but find myself lusting for another Ti bike with no valid reason whatsoever.
Steel vs. Ti I think they're both are great,you will be happy either way.
Go with the local guys,that's an easy choice.
Sounds like you have made an unfair comparison. Titanium (the raw material) is generally stiffer and much stronger than steel, so you can make a frame about the same weight that is stiffer (sounds like what you had) or a super light frame with a little more flex. Most people, I think, like the weight savings so wind up with a super light and slightly flexy frame.

The first ti bike I rode was an old very light merlin - it had a realy cool springy feel to it. The ti bike I have now is a heavier and much stiffer - still much more give than the GT alu frame it replaced, but only a little more than the steel GT who's warranty got me the alu. ANd its a little lighter than the alu, much lighter than the steel.

I used to have a Parkpre with a very light steel frame. It was a wet noodle under my 240+lbs but light.

Its not the material, its the way you use it.
 
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