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is there a rule or something? i realized today after reading an article in USA Today basically saying what a trainwreck the sport has become what with all of the doping scandals, that i've never seen or even heard of a woman rider in the tdf. why is this? there has to be some company out there willing to sponsor an all women's team, or even a rider or two on another team. what gives?
 

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TrekFan said:
is there a rule or something? i realized today after reading an article in USA Today basically saying what a trainwreck the sport has become what with all of the doping scandals, that i've never seen or even heard of a woman rider in the tdf. why is this? there has to be some company out there willing to sponsor an all women's team, or even a rider or two on another team. what gives?
I don't know if it's a written rule or not, but are there even any women who are fast enough to keep up with a TdF-caliber peleton?

There exists a TdF Feminin though.
 

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Nat said:
but are there even any women who are fast enough to keep up with a TdF-caliber peleton?
Please don't understand me wrong now, because I don't mean it in bad way. No there's no women who could be even close to men, when it comes to this. And it's pretty much same in all endurance sports. I remember back from my xc skiing days, when I was nothing that great, but even if I had really really bad day, with really bad skis, my times were still from at least 2-3minutes on 10km (20-25min) faster then World's best women xc skiers. And top men were another minute or two faster then me (on same race, so conditions were same etc.).
So realistically looking, women don't have chance to compete equally with men on some race like TdF for example.
And once again, please don't understand me wrong with this now. I'm not against women, women in sport, or anything like that.
 

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primoz said:
Please don't understand me wrong now, because I don't mean it in bad way. No there's no women who could be even close to men, when it comes to this. And it's pretty much same in all endurance sports. I remember back from my xc skiing days, when I was nothing that great, but even if I had really really bad day, with really bad skis, my times were still from at least 2-3minutes on 10km (20-25min) faster then World's best women xc skiers. And top men were another minute or two faster then me (on same race, so conditions were same etc.).
So realistically looking, women don't have chance to compete equally with men on some race like TdF for example.
And once again, please don't understand me wrong with this now. I'm not against women, women in sport, or anything like that.
i agree, except with that one line there is a bit of an exception. womens bodies have the abilty, in theory, to be better than mens at endurance sports in specific, because of the higher body fat%(for energy) and lower body weight distro the bigger hips provide. this is what science studies have determined at least,im sure there is more in it than anyone knows though.

plus lance already proved that having fewer balls is better.
(actually there is truth to this also, if you do some research, that when he lost on of his little guys it changed his testoserone/estrogen levels and that changes how your body stores/burns fat compared to other energy, and when you look at a time line when he lost it is exactly when he checnged from a good one day rider(triathalon guy) to multi-stage guy(TDF winning guy). crazy stuff.
 

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Another example to compare elite pro men v. elite pro women is the marathon. The men's world best is now under 2:05. Women have just broken 2:20 in the last few years and I think the record is something like 2:18 and some seconds. Very, very few women have run under 2:20. The elite men break 2:10 all the time.

Whether women can do better in ultra-endurance events due to their higher percentage of body fat is still something being debated. But we are talking about "one shot" events that last a long time, such as a 100 or more mile trail run, and require a lower intensity but very lengthy effort. I think a woman has been the overall winner of the one of the long endurance races in the U.S. on a couple of occasions, but I'm not sure of the men's fields she competed against. The best pro men may not have been been there.

I have read some research on the issue and believe that with running, the difference between the world's best for men and women is always in the range of 10%, so that men the men's world best is about 10% faster than the women's. This was a study that compared world's bests in numerous events from the 100m to the marathon, and looked at them over a long period of time. The difference has been strikingly similar for years.

I would think that there would be a bigger difference in bike racing because, unlike running, your power to weight ratio becomes more important than it is with most running events. Endurance running events don't require much power, while cycling often requires very serious power. I'm sure there are women who could hang with the pro peleton on a flat course--but in the final 10k when everybody drops the hammer and they start getting ready to lead out for the sprinters that is when we would find out if the best women could hang in there.
 

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Hand/of/Midas said:
i agree, except with that one line there is a bit of an exception. womens bodies have the abilty, in theory, to be better than mens at endurance sports.... and when you look at a time line when (Lance) lost it is exactly when he checnged from a good one day rider(triathalon guy) to multi-stage guy(TDF winning guy). crazy stuff.
1.) Look at the World Records for women. High School aged boys reqularly beat them, cycling included. Women aren't within 15 mins of the marathon time. You're the victim of PC myths.

2.) If you don't know now, I'll break the news. Lance won because he cheated. If he didn't, some other cheater would have won. Cycling is rotten with doping scandals, they didn't have the means to catch the latest drugs/methods when he was racing.
 

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pursuiter said:
1.) Look at the World Records for women. High School aged boys reqularly beat them, cycling included. Women aren't within 15 mins of the marathon time. You're the victim of PC myths.
Midas is right about women in ultra-endurance events. There is a serious debate among exercise physiologists on the issue and there is some evidence that women may be able to out-perform men in such events. There are coaches and exercise physiologists very interested in the issue. But an event barely over two hours, such as the marathon, is not nearly long enough. Where women might be able to outperform men is in very long events. We are talking 100+ trail runs and things like that--low intensity but very lengthy efforts.
 

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By the way, I want to add that for probably 98% of us men out there we shouldn't get too confident about smoking all the women around. Because the elite women will kick our ass. I'm riding with a group of roadies to try to get ready for a mountain biking race season and they are kicking my butt. They are really good riders. There is one woman in the group, she is in her mid-40s, and she is a former state champion road racer from about 10 years ago. She finishes with the lead group all the time and, while she isn't better than the best of those guys, she is in a whole different league than most of the weekend warriors around here.

When I used to run, I typically would place in my age group and would finish in the top 2% of the field most of the time. But still, there were always a few women around that could whip my butt.
 

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The greatest mtb rider of all time (imho)

Julie Furtado would have only placed 5th or 6th in most men's xc races on her best days. Then you start talking about pro road racing, and the gap is beyond comprehension between men and women. I don't mean it in a cheuavanistic way either but the femine' tour de france has really short stages and the average speed is slower than those of the men's tour. I would however be all for allowing women into the tour, much better reason to sit on someone's wheel:) .
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
ScottW said:
The reason is because this is "Mens" pro cycling. There are no men riding in the women's pro cycling events either. Same as with most other sports.
who says? again i ask, is there a rule? there's no way anyone is going to convince me that a woman would not be able to finish the tdf. and in this day and age, just finishing gives you a chance to win it. entire teams are disqualified regularly.

some of your responses sadden me. this is the same sort of b.s. that women have to endure when the topic comes up in baseball or golf or even bowling. they're too weak, they're too slow, they just can't keep up with men, so therefore there needs to be a separate "women's" version. don't even get me started on why women are forced to play softball and not baseball...
 

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TrekFan said:
who says? again i ask, is there a rule? there's no way anyone is going to convince me that a woman would not be able to finish the tdf. and in this day and age, just finishing gives you a chance to win it. entire teams are disqualified regularly.

some of your responses sadden me. this is the same sort of b.s. that women have to endure when the topic comes up in baseball or golf or even bowling. they're too weak, they're too slow, they just can't keep up with men, so therefore there needs to be a separate "women's" version. don't even get me started on why women are forced to play softball and not baseball...
I tried to Google TdF rules to see if women are expressly forbidden from entering, but I came up with nothing useful.

For the sake of argument let's say women are allowed to enter per the rules. I don't know if any woman currently exists who can ride at the level of the TdF racers. I'd like there to be someone because I'd cheer her on all the way, but I don't think there is any such person. Most pro men are unable to ride at that level, so they don't make the cut.

The TdF is like the Superbowl of cycling, so an analogy would be finding a woman who is a good enough football player to even be in the NFL (difficult in itself) but it doesn't mean she is necessarily good enough to start in the championship game. Racing the TdF would be like starting in the Superbowl. It's pretty high up there on the scale of difficulty.
 
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who don't women boxers have matches with men?

where are the female DBs, QBs and RBs in the NFL?

in my opinion, the only major sport in which the girls might keep up with the boys is basketball and marginally at that.

i'm not being a boor, i'm not being sexist i'm just telling the truth.
 

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Gatorback said:
By the way, I want to add that for probably 98% of us men out there we shouldn't get too confident about smoking all the women around. Because the elite women will kick our ass. I'm riding with a group of roadies to try to get ready for a mountain biking race season and they are kicking my butt. They are really good riders. There is one woman in the group, she is in her mid-40s, and she is a former state champion road racer from about 10 years ago. She finishes with the lead group all the time and, while she isn't better than the best of those guys, she is in a whole different league than most of the weekend warriors around here.

When I used to run, I typically would place in my age group and would finish in the top 2% of the field most of the time. But still, there were always a few women around that could whip my butt.
Athletic chauvinism would be a huge mistake in my town. Half the women who live here can dust most of the men out there.
 

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I don't know if there's rule or not. I would assume there's no rule. There are on the other side rules, that men can't compete in women races, but I don't think it's opposite.
But as I wrote, there's unfortunately no chance any women would be competitive in such level. I have been long enough around top level sport, first 20 years of xc skiing myself, and now quite few years as sport photographer shooting World cup and World Championships in many sports including cycling. And when you look women races they are fine, but speed is nothing that would really amaze me. With men races, things are different. I am amazed over and over again, even if I'm used to this. So if we like it or not, best women on World wouldn't have any chance to finish single a bit faster stage of TdF in time limits they have.
And for easier comparison... check times in marathon or even 100m running, where women and men compete on exactly same tracks. Difference is huge.
And once again, as I wrote earlier already, I have nothing against women in sport, and if someone asks me, I have no problems with women being on start of TdF, but I don't think it's realistically to expect, women can be competitive in men category.
 
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