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For example the Blur LT with X9AM kit and 32 Talas RLC is $4500 but you can get the Giant Reign with similar kit and 32 Talas RL for $3100... that's a major difference. Is it really that much better in performance? Although Giant's Meastro sus is suppose to be really good too. Could it be just a case of small company vs big company?
 

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Because so many people voted republican, war in Iraq and americans owe more money then they should combined with a low savings rate. Get used to it the dollar is still looseing ground to other currencies its going to get worse.
 

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I fix choppers
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I think mainly its small company vs. big company. Everyone's costs are going up; that is just how it goes. Giant literally dwarfs (no pun intended) Santa Cruz in size and buying power. Many people have refered to the Maestro suspension as the "poor-man's" VPP. The differences in ride may be subtle to most, however the longer I ride I find that those little details can make a good ride great. :devil:
 

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The frames themselves are actually quite a good deal, the vpp frames are up there but if you just buy the frame itself and build it up with sale parts you can save almost a grand off of what they charge for the kit. One of the issues is that the Fox shox and forks they are specing are very expensive themselves and Fox isn't discounting them even to oem specs like Santa cruz. Also, it's the price you pay for a boutique type manufacturer that is based in the Us. I personally get alot more pride out of owning brands like this over Specialized, Giant, trek, etc...
 

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noMAD man
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Yes...big vs small

Lone_Rider74 said:
For example the Blur LT with X9AM kit and 32 Talas RLC is $4500 but you can get the Giant Reign with similar kit and 32 Talas RL for $3100... that's a major difference. Is it really that much better in performance? Although Giant's Meastro sus is suppose to be really good too. Could it be just a case of small company vs big company?
Yes...in the case of Giant, it is a big vs small issue as it applies to price. Giant owns the manufacturing source in the far east that makes its bikes, they have huge dealership networks across the globe, and they really pass on savings due to large sales across the planet. I'm always a little suspicious of someone like Specialized, though they're not as big as Giant in shear numbers, they are huge, but their bikes seem a little on the high end of the price scale at least as it pertains to their high end bikes. I'd bet Spec's profit margin on their whole line is bigger than Giant's. That's business however, and it's Spec's perogitive to market their product as they see fit, and the consumer's perogitive to buy as they see fit.

And while SC designs and builds all their own "test" bikes right down to the final frame design, the manufacture of the marketed frames are outsourced. This and the reduced number of frames...at least as compared to Giant...will obviously raise the final price. No rocket science in any of this. People also tend to bash Trek with equal impunity as they do Spec, but frankly I don't think I see the equality in pricing levels. Trek seems a little more realistic in their high end prices IMO...especially compared to Spec. And when you consider that a lot of these high end Treks are still made at their U.S. factory, I give them props for trying to be reasonable. I work at a shop that sells Trek, Spec, and SC, so I don't have a personal ax to grind with any of these 3 companies. I also personally own at least two of each of these brands.
 

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Put it this way,

Giant bikes, along with Jamis, Kona, and a few others are always on sale in the mail order magazine advertisements. For a last year's model, you can easily take 30-50% off the msrp.

I usually switch bikes every few years. Resale value are important to me.

I once brought a Giant top of the line FR bike (AC-1) for 55% off b/c it was a last year model. I sold the frame after a year, and brought a SC Bullit frame. All of a sudden I have a SC bullit with components that are about $ 1000 cheaper than if I brought the bike direct from SC with that spec.

So, the point is, the status value of a certain brand will help maintain it's depreciation value over the year.

But in simpler terms, I ride trails where SC bikes are made and tested on, so its almost a perfect custom trail built for us Nor-Cal folks. That is why on a typical trail ride, I always see a bunch of SC bikes here. The popularity contributes to its status value, which contribute to it's premium cost.
 

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Sc in OZ

Ge, try buying an SC frame in Australia . I have just bought a 08 v10 ...FRAME..$4400/au that`s like $4000 US :eek: . This will be my 4th Sc bike and i wouldn`t buy any other brand . :thumbsup:
 

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Some Assembly Required
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Czech out he pricing on Treks Session line. Personally I think this is where I draw the line in the sand.
$3.3K for an "advertised price" frame only & $3K "srp", Holy Dookie Batman !!! My SC's are lookin' good compared to this !!!!

Took this stuff from http://www.nsmb.com/page/s/2511/trek-session-88

000000Pricing CDN* CDNº US* USº € Euro UK £ SFr Kr
Session 88 FR 6499 6149 6049 5499 3999 3200 5999 32,999
Session 88 DH 6999 6499 6379 5799 4299 3500 6499 35,999
DH Frame only 4499 3999 3299 2999 2199 1800 3299 17,999

For CDN and US pricing *denotes 'advertised price while ºindicates the suggested price. These bikes should be available at your local Trek Dealer in late July.
 

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daisycutter said:
Because so many people voted republican, war in Iraq and americans owe more money then they should combined with a low savings rate. Get used to it the dollar is still looseing ground to other currencies its going to get worse.
Whether this is true or not (personally to me this kind of reflexive commentary demonstrates a complete ignorance of economics), I don't see how this has anything to do with how Santa Cruz has historically priced their bikes, or how it impacts their business model and bottom line.

Even in the 90s, Santa Cruz had a premium for their products because they make premium products. The question the OP asked is more like "Why is a lexus more expensive than a honda?" They're both good cars, they might have similar features, but an engineer costs a certain amount of money, testing costs a certain amount of money; even if you say these costs are the same between the two companies, which they're not, the cost can be spread across many more bikes for a larger company. Larger companies usually can get cheaper prices on many components with larger lot orders as well. This is why the difference in price exists.

I own a blur and I've demoed an anthem and a reign, and I just like the feel of the blur climbing better than pretty much every other fs bike I've tried. IIRC the kit blurs are lighter than the giants they compete against as well. You're paying for that too.

Now if you're asking why an Ibis costs the same as a Blur LT2, that's a different story.
 

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hkenshin said:
Whether this is true or not (personally to me this kind of reflexive commentary demonstrates a complete ignorance of economics), I don't see how this has anything to do with how Santa Cruz has historically priced their bikes, or how it impacts their business model and bottom line.

Even in the 90s, Santa Cruz had a premium for their products because they make premium products. The question the OP asked is more like "Why is a lexus more expensive than a honda?" They're both good cars, they might have similar features, but an engineer costs a certain amount of money, testing costs a certain amount of money; even if you say these costs are the same between the two companies, which they're not, the cost can be spread across many more bikes for a larger company. Larger companies usually can get cheaper prices on many components with larger lot orders as well. This is why the difference in price exists.

I own a blur and I've demoed an anthem and a reign, and I just like the feel of the blur climbing better than pretty much every other fs bike I've tried. IIRC the kit blurs are lighter than the giants they compete against as well. You're paying for that too.

Now if you're asking why an Ibis costs the same as a Blur LT2, that's a different story.
Hee, hee....oh wait I thought you said Ibex...:rolleyes:
 

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Bring on the Funk!
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Giant actually manufactures some SC bikes. We are paying for better design with SC. I've owned both Giant and SC and my new BLT2 (probably made by Giant) is the best bike I've ever ridden. We can whine all we want, but SC has the goods. If you can afford it, buy it and ride it. R&D is still the core of any good design and it seems like this continent is still the king of R&D for the near future.
 

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It depends on what you compare SC to. Giant is the largest bike maker in the world and they enjoy huge economies of scale and get very favorable pricing from their vendors and they pass on those savings to their customers. Compare SC to Spec or Trek and you'll see that SC prices are right in line and often cheaper than what these companies sell and SC is much smaller and do not benefit from the economies of scale that Spec and Trek get.
 

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I'm a bottom feeder...
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It's all George W's fault..... Actually TNC has it right. I've had too many Red Stripe's.... Sorry for the blabber....Santa Cruz rocks. Hey Giant is such large a company don't they make other companies frames as well.... now if SC made other peoples frames, how long do you think you would have to wait for a ride now!!! LOL!!!! SC #1 Hey if you want a Giant go for it .... If you want the best get a Nomad!
 

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I had to try both...
Want to change frame (when I get OK!), and thought about:

Reing X
Nomad

Price difference?!? LOL!
SC Nomad = +/- 2200€
Reing-X = +/- 1400€

Where can I find a 800€ difference? I mean... real difference?
Bump absorption?
Pedal efficiency?
Weigh difference - by how much?

Giant:
BB weight: 353 mm
Seat angle: 73,7º
Head angle: 66,1º

SC Nomad:
BB weight: 366 mm
Seat angle: 70,9º
Head angle: 67,1º

[This figures where taken from a Spanish magazine -same way they measure, so no company figures]

I love the Nomad... but it`s quite a lot of "dosh"... and I am a logical guy not a passionate guy (If you know what I mean).

PS: I don`t want to discuss why the price difference. It`s like comparing Porsche 911 turbo with Nissan Skyline GTR (and I think this is a good comparation!) or a Ducati 848 with a CBR/ZX/GSXR600.

In this cases I would prefer the Porsche! But for bikes... Jap far, far way! Even if they don`t have any "charisma"

Sorry for this small of topic!:D

PS: I really don`t give a s"#& what other people think about my bike! So the status stuf, for me is like minus 3 points!
 

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I know my bullit was so expensive due to the really "cool expensive stickers" they use. (which are already pealing off)

Some of you know what i mean. Thanks SC nice touch of quality!!!
 

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jazzboy said:
Giant actually manufactures some SC bikes. We are paying for better design with SC. I've owned both Giant and SC and my new BLT2 (probably made by Giant) is the best bike I've ever ridden. We can whine all we want, but SC has the goods. If you can afford it, buy it and ride it. R&D is still the core of any good design and it seems like this continent is still the king of R&D for the near future.
eh, I dunno about Giant manufacturing SC stuff - wont commit, but I dont think so.

SC VPP's are made in the US the last time I checked, SP's and HT's abroad...
 
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