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My bike was -TWO- Wheels!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
One thing I have never understood in the biking world is why people buy XTR and XT parts. Granted I have never ridden a bike with them, but my bike has a alivio setup. And it shifts and works great.

What makes the XTR and all that stuff so much better? I had a set of LX rapidfires once, but they arent any better than what I have now.
 

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Well, I was once like you are now, also wondering why folks were foolish enough to pay so much cash for parts.

Now I own an XTR rear derailler with an LX front.

The LX is a vast improvement over the original Deore, and the XTR is a noticeable improvement over the LX that was on there for a 18 months (it wore out).

And a good test is to do this.

Go find a hill, nothing big and scary, just an incline.

Start pedalling up said hill.

Now, without backing off the pedals and using enough power to continue moving, change gears. Either front or rear doesn't really matter.

One of two thing are very likely to happen with yer Alivio. 1 it wont shift. It will just make a grating noise. 2 the derailler will go pop.

And there's the difference. I can shift under full power (in fact the shifting seems to improve under power) up hill, down dale. Even Deore couldn't quite manage that, and the LX was not as quick and crisp as the XTR is.

Would I buy XTR in the future? Maybe, I don't know till I get there.

Am I happy with it? Yes, but an XT prolly would have been fine too.

Ok? :)
 

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My bike was -TWO- Wheels!
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
True, if I do shift under power, my bike really doesnt like that, the front D will either not shift, or chainsuck (which is a chainring problem, but anyway) and the rear makes really neat noises.

What makes the derailer do this? Strong springs and stuff in the better deraulers stop the bad nosies and that?
 

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because the Japs are in a recession, you can help

summitlt said:
One thing I have never understood in the biking world is why people buy XTR and XT parts. Granted I have never ridden a bike with them, but my bike has a alivio setup. And it shifts and works great.

What makes the XTR and all that stuff so much better? I had a set of LX rapidfires once, but they arent any better than what I have now.
If nobody buys shitmano's expensive crap, they'll have to lay off some of their employees, who will then no longer be able to afford to chain-smoke cigarettes.
Besides, as any magazine editor will tell you, there is a direct correlation between quality and price.
 

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if you think XTR is that much better than XT, you are a perfect sucker, and Shimano (along with its various end-product retailers) thanks you for it. :D

now, there are folks like Schtoo who will tell you that shifting under loads is better, but I'd rather tell you this: if you shift under loads, you are not very good at shifting and riding, and would be MUCH better served learning how to time your shifts. buying XTR won't save your arse.

the weight savings is silly too, but one look in the Weight Weenies Forum and you'll see that a whole gang of fools disagree with me on that one.

frankly, I think the big differences in Shimano are between Deore and LX. LX and XT have grown very close, and the tiny weight savings you get moving from XT to XTR are NOT worth the monstrous price increase... unless you're a weight weenie, and then you've got a whole OTHER problem to deal with! :D
 

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Thanks for letting me know I don't know how to ride or change gears. Appreciate it. Maybe you might come and teach me?

Summit, if you can take a look at the currewnt XT/XTR rear deraillers, you might see that the pivots are wider and generally a little stronger. That continues through the whole derailler, making the whole thing a little stiffer, so under load it can and will shift where the lower grade ones will flex and not shift.

I do agree with Gonzo though, LX is by far the better option, providing that group set has caught up with the higher levels. So the front derailler, shifters are great. Rear derailler is very good, but the cranks are not quite there yet. Next year I guess. This years XT cranks are better (stiffer) than the same LX right now.

As to why I have the XTR, victim of the parts shortage late last year. Needed a derailler, the one I ordered had not arrived for over 2 months, and the XTR was sitting there. Paid about as much as you would get the XT from an online place.
 

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ballbuster
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Why, to impress your friends, of course!

summitlt said:
One thing I have never understood in the biking world is why people buy XTR and XT parts. Granted I have never ridden a bike with them, but my bike has a Alivio setup. And it shifts and works great.

What makes the XTR and all that stuff so much better? I had a set of LX rapidfires once, but they arent any better than what I have now.
Well, as you go up in price, the shifting gets snappier (especially under load) with less finger/thumb effort, the weight goes down, and the finish gets purdier. The amounts of improvement are debatable, but when I went from Alivio to XT, the difference was pretty dramatic. XTR looses a tad of weight over XT, but that's really about it. XTR also goes to Rapid Rise for XTR (did RR make it down to XT yet?) meaning that when the cable is slack, the deraileur goes to the big cog/low gear in back. This works well with their new flippy combo shifters, I guess. Press down for harder gears, flip up for easier. Personally, I like to be able to dump 3 or 4 gears easier in one thumb press.
 

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or,

...you could back off a bit on the pedal pressure the instant you shift, like riders have been doing since derailleurs were invented, thus making a quick clean quiet shift without overstressing the chain links and other drivetrain parts. But I guess XTR would be the hot ticket for folks that don't know how to shift.
 

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Just passing through....
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I've found XT and for the most part LX to be just as good as XTR at a fraction of the cost. I currently have a few XT and LX parts on my bike, but no XTR parts. Too much money with no significant increase in performance.

I'm not familiar enough with the performance of Alivio components to make an adequatre comparison, but judging from the shifting performance of my wife's bike, I'd guess that they are probably just as good as Deore.
 

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summitlt said:
One thing I have never understood in the biking world is why people buy XTR and XT parts. Granted I have never ridden a bike with them, but my bike has a alivio setup. And it shifts and works great.

What makes the XTR and all that stuff so much better? I had a set of LX rapidfires once, but they arent any better than what I have now.
I bought all my complete XTR stuff, front 8 speed shifters, old style rapid rise derailleur, XTR Ti cassette, XTR chain on Ebay or MTBR or Pinkbike sites. Fraction of cost of new XT stuff. Am I happy, you bet. Has lasted 1&1/2 years for couple thousand miles and stuff was used remember. XTR shifters are smoother, ball bearings I think, rear derailleur pullies have sealed bearings. I'll never get anything else. Can't afford it new, but there are deals on 8 speed stuff out there. Just found an XTR Ti cassette , 8 spd, for $5 at a garage sale. Keeping it as spare should I ever wear other one out.
 

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pimpbot said:
. XTR also goes to Rapid Rise for XTR (did RR make it down to XT yet?) meaning that when the cable is slack, the deraileur goes to the big cog/low gear in back. This works well with their new flippy combo shifters, I guess. Press down for harder gears, flip up for easier. Personally, I like to be able to dump 3 or 4 gears easier in one thumb press.
Yes, XT rear der now (as of 04) comes in a RR version as the 760 model, the traditional XT is the 750 model. The 760 goes for about $60 minimum online about $10 more than the 750.

This is my fourth season on the RR version of the XTR rear deraileur, I upgraded from XT normal shift. The shift performance difference between the two is dramatic downshifting under load. Upgraded from XT to XTR on front der and didn't notice any difference.

Upgraded from LX shifters to XTR, no noticeable shifting difference there, although the thumb paddle on the XTR is metal vs plastic on the LX, although I think the XTR actually weights a few gms more.

As for the newer XT and XTR hollow spindle cranks, I wouldn't touch them with a 10 ft pole.
Same for the Race Face Deus. I'll wait a year or two until they iron out their bearing and spline issues.
 
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