[DeoreDX]

Easy answer.

Because it's easier to pedal a 25 lb. bike up a hill vs. 32 lb bike. It takes less energy to do so and makes for a less sore body at the end of the day.

My 25 year old Wheeler is around 26lbs. My son's more modern X-Cal 6 29er was around 31lbs. I can absolutely tell the difference in the weight when putting them on a bike rack. It's a "woah this bike is way heavier" immediate feel when lifting it up on the truck.

But taking a 2 hours ride on either one? At my pedestrian speeds I don't notice the difference in energy output or exhaustion in taking either bike out. Lets think about the physics. Work is force applied over a distance. For us Force is directly proportional to weight. But I'm not just moving the bike I'm moving myself + the bike. I'm 195 and my bike is 26 so I'm moving 221lbs over the course of the trail. On my son's bike I'm moving 226 lbs. That's about a 2.2% difference the amount of work through the course of the ride. As an amateur I'm not pushing the edge far enough to notice a ~2% change in energy output. I'm sure there are some that are pushing the envelope that hard but it isn't me and probably isn't most of us posting on this board.

 

[Nat]

Easy answer.

Because it's easier to pedal a 25 lb. bike up a hill vs. 32 lb bike. It takes less energy to do so and makes for a less sore body at the end of the day.

Having a bike with better suspension, dropper post, and tire inserts (all heavier) makes for a less sore body after descending though. It's worth the weight penalty.

 

[Curveball]

Having a bike with better suspension, dropper post, and tire inserts (all heavier) makes for a less sore body after descending though. It's worth the weight penalty.

It's all about tradeoffs. I'll use a somewhat extreme example of V-brakes versus disc brakes. V-brakes are lighter, cheaper, and less complex than disc brakes. But who in their right mind these days would ever choose the huge performance disadvantage of Vees over disc brakes? Talk about being worth the weight penalty!

A lighter bike is nice, but I think it's a good idea to try to save weight in places that won't affect performance too much. Then you can sacrifice weight for better performance in parts that matter like a dropper, brakes, etc.

 

[Nat]

It's all about tradeoffs. I'll use a somewhat extreme example of V-brakes versus disc brakes. V-brakes are lighter, cheaper, and less complex than disc brakes. But who on their right mind these days would ever choose the huge performance disadvantage of Vees over disc brakes? Talk about being worth the weight penalty!

A lighter bike is nice, but I think it's a good idea to try to save weight in places that won't affect performance too much. Then you can sacrifice weight for better performance in parts that matter like a dropper, brakes, etc.

That's actually a great example.

So in other words, lighter is better as long as it doesn't sacrifice performance. All things being equal, heavier is okay if it provides improved performance and/or durability without being unnecessarily heavy for no reason, and your bike should be tailored to your particular riding situation.

I plan to come back in about 30 more posts to say this same thing again after everyone else has too.

 

[Whiterabbitt]

What do you suppose about less obvious examples such as tires, maybe cassettes? Forks, and shocks? I suspect the grey is where folks get caught up in.

 

[Curveball]

What do you suppose about less obvious examples such as tires, maybe cassettes? Forks, and shocks? I suspect the grey is where folks get caught up in.

I think a cassette is a great place to save some weight without losing performance.

Tires? Hooboy, I think tires are a very personal choice based on rider preferences, terrain, etc. I don't think you can generalize very much about tires.

Suspension? Well, I guess that's like tires and will depend a lot on the individual rider preference, intentions, and terrain.

 

[ocnLogan]

I don't feel like "you" really get to choose tires.

You can choose your riding speed, and the conditions that you ride in... but then you kind of have to run a certain category of tires based on that. I am heavier than the avg rider (200lbs), live/ride in one of the "its wet and slippery" most of the year part of the world (PNW), and according to trailforks data, I'm not super slow. My tires reflect that (~1100-1200g).

Cassette is a great example of weight that many people don't think about. Effectively, you pay to play here, for 12 speed at least. There is something like a 300g difference between NX, and XX1 Eagle in weight.

This is personally where I find the wide range 9 through 11 speed cassettes are most interesting. The Microshift Advent X cassette weighs less than the 12 speed Shimano XT/SRAM GX Cassettes... and costs $65. An interesting value proposition for those that feel they are having to choose between wide range, and a small budget.

 

[Crankout]

So in other words, lighter is better as long as it doesn't sacrifice performance. All things being equal, heavier is okay if it provides improved performance and/or durability without being unnecessarily heavy for no reason, and your bike should be tailored to your particular riding situation.

 

[Nat]

So in other words, lighter is better as long as it doesn't sacrifice performance. All things being equal, heavier is okay if it provides improved performance and/or durability without being unnecessarily heavy for no reason, and your bike should be tailored to your particular riding situation.

Furthermore, if you're uphill-oriented you might favor something different than if you're downhill-oriented, all things being equal of course.

Has anyone mentioned taking a pre-ride dump before your ride being as effective as buying expensive parts yet?

 

[DeoreDX]

Has anyone mentioned taking a pre-ride dump before your ride being as effective as buying expensive parts yet?

it can also be a great motivator to get back to the parking lot as fast as possible.

 

[dysfunction]

it can also be a great motivator to get back to the parking lot as fast as possible.

Well, or a good way to avoid just that

Keeps the bibs cleaner too. I prefer it when mine just smell of noxema.

 

[Le Duke]

Furthermore, if you're uphill-oriented you might favor something different than if you're downhill-oriented, all things being equal of course.

Has anyone mentioned taking a pre-ride dump before your ride being as effective as buying expensive parts yet?

If your pre-ride dumps are resulting in you losing 5+ lbs, call the CDC and local health authorities, because you might have Ebola.


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[Fajita Dave]

To be fair even a half pound is a lot more weight savings than most very expensive parts will get you.

 

[dysfunction]

If your pre-ride dumps are resulting in you losing 5+ lbs, call the CDC and local health authorities, because you might have Ebola.


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You're kind of over-blowing this whole weight delta thing by... a lot.

 

[FJSnoozer]

Furthermore, if you're uphill-oriented you might favor something different than if you're downhill-oriented, all things being equal of course.

Has anyone mentioned taking a pre-ride dump before your ride being as effective as buying expensive parts yet?

For the record, I take no less than 4 dumps prerace. (Never done one in race and I’ve raced up to 11 hours)


Directed at the question of tires from another poster.:

I find race tires to be no less durable than party tires.
I may give up 1-3 seconds on a descent, so when you are on the clock for the full effort (not just downhill enduro) but you gain far more time kn flat singletrack, not just up hill. Minions are so incredibly slow. my threshold for sketchiness is much higher and i am used to bombing on a semislick. These internet test video feature normal riders who arent hadd to it and give up huge gaps. When switching to an XC bike. My margin is very very tight.

People think their terrain dictates a 1100-1300 dhf. Thats pure poppycock. I guarantee you there are people rolling the same thing on less tire. If you were poll people in bentonville for example, you will get an 80% bias towards DD and exo+ enduro tires to reliably ride the b40. I rode the trails for months on racing semi-slicks and had the same number of punctures as did on enduro tire. At the end if the day its about line choice. Im a heavy guy but ride light.

There are some places i throw a much more aggressive tire on for safety and pure fun. Sedona for example has wicked fun exposure and i want a big lug so i don’t slide off an off camber 400 foot cliff. The off camber rock there also would eat my semi slick rubber off and i would wear through a tires shoulder log in 1 week. So there is that. Braap!


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[FJSnoozer]

You're kind of over-blowing this whole weight delta thing by... a lot.

Nit really, you are just conversing with some very analytical fairly successful racers who know exactly how dramatic 3 pounds is. The layman has no idea.

Also, 3 pounds is less dramatic when you are 220. Its like an anchor if you are lightweight.

For reference, people may “train” all year for a 2-3% gain in power. If you are 150 pounds, buying a year’s worth of gains isnt such a bad idea?

Plus lighter bikes are zippy and fun. You would have a lot more fun on my 29 pound enduro than the same bike at 32 lbs as it comes.


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[dysfunction]

Nit really, you are just conversing with some very analytical fairly successful racers who know exactly how dramatic 3 pounds is. The layman has no idea.

Also, 3 pounds is less dramatic when you are 220. Its like an anchor if you are lightweight.

For reference, people may “train” all year for a 2-3% gain in power. If you are 150 pounds, buying a year’s worth of gains isnt such a bad idea?

Plus lighter bikes are zippy and fun. You would have a lot more fun on my 29 pound enduro than the same bike at 32 lbs as it comes.


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Really? so you're expecting this weight delta to be over 3 kilograms on average? For a casual rider? Considering the total weight savings from the cheapest to the most expensive cassette alone is less than 500grams.. AMAZING

This has now been funnier to read than the last one of these on RBR.

 

[FJSnoozer]

Really? so you're expecting this weight delta to be over 3 kilograms on average? For a casual rider? Considering the total weight savings from the cheapest to the most expensive cassette alone is less than 500grams.. AMAZING

This has now been funnier to read than the last one of these on RBR.

What are you talking about?

I believe you are quoting a line of discussion which is not talking about cassettes.





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[FJSnoozer]

To be fair even a half pound is a lot more weight savings than most very expensive parts will get you.

This is why one persons bike is wildly different from another.

Here are some of the parts on my bike. Several of them are wear items thats you just upgrade when you need to replace. Thats my strategy. Savings are in “( )”

My comfortable Grips $2 (60g)
My comfortable Seat $40 ( 115g)
Seatpost $100 (110g)
Bar $100 (90g)
Cassette $200 (120g lighter than GX 30 lighter than XX1)
Tires $120 (120g lighter than what came on my bike. And they are better)

Anything in the $1 per gram ratio is a solid investment. There are a lit of random small parts in this category that people dont pay attention to.


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[ocnLogan]

For the record, I take no less than 4 dumps prerace. (Never done one in race and I’ve raced up to 11 hours)


Directed at the question of tires from another poster.:

I find race tires to be no less durable than party tires.
I may give up 1-3 seconds on a descent, so when you are on the clock for the full effort (not just downhill enduro) but you gain far more time kn flat singletrack, not just up hill. Minions are so incredibly slow. my threshold for sketchiness is much higher and i am used to bombing on a semislick. These internet test video feature normal riders who arent hadd to it and give up huge gaps. When switching to an XC bike. My margin is very very tight.

People think their terrain dictates a 1100-1300 dhf. Thats pure poppycock. I guarantee you there are people rolling the same thing on less tire. If you were poll people in bentonville for example, you will get an 80% bias towards DD and exo+ enduro tires to reliably ride the b40. I rode the trails for months on racing semi-slicks and had the same number of punctures as did on enduro tire. At the end if the day its about line choice. Im a heavy guy but ride light.

There are some places i throw a much more aggressive tire on for safety and pure fun. Sedona for example has wicked fun exposure and i want a big lug so i don’t slide off an off camber 400 foot cliff. The off camber rock there also would eat my semi slick rubber off and i would wear through a tires shoulder log in 1 week. So there is that. Braap!


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I would say that labeling your tires "race" vs "party" tires is a bit of a misnomer. I assume you mean "cross country" tires when you say race. But Enduro, and Downhill tires are still "race" tires, depending on your intentions.

Also, you have had the same number of punctures with "enduro" tires as with "race" (cross country) tires? Are you meaning "enduro" tread patterns, or the heavier casing tires. I've personally not had any punctures since I stepped up to a heavier casing tire, despite going faster. I punctured an EXO DHF straight through the center of the tread.

In the end though, aren't you saying basically the same thing that I was?

You're said you're ok with giving up 1-3 seconds on the downs, to be faster overall in most situations. Great. But then also say that in other situations with higher consequence, you prefer the safety and fun of a more aggressive tire. Also great.

I'm say the exact same thing. I prefer the safety, and fun of a tire with traction, vs one without where I live (Seattle area of PNW, where its wet and muddy half the year). Because crashing due to a hidden patch of mud under some leaves/etc, or an especially slippery root, isn't very appealing. And since I ride for fun, I gladly accept this tradeoff, and accept being a bit slower on the flats, and climbs. And since I've flatted through thin casing tires, and want traction, that leaves me with the ~1000-1200g tires that I tend to run.

To your point, I'm positive that there are people riding the same trails that I am with less tire, more speed, or both. But I don't think that "I" would ride them faster or having more fun with less tire. The riders going faster, are likely just better riders than I am.