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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Curious as to how you're getting on with it in comparison to other shocks you've tried.

having run numerous shocks now on FR's and AM's(Roco TSTr, DHX-C, Monarch and CCDB) I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that it's not all it's cracked up to be(at least on this application). Some aspects of it's performance are stunning. Mainly LS Comp and rebound. it pedals great, resists bottoming brilliantly, stays composed and flat through high G corners etc. The issues appear to be around HS events.

Things got off to a rocky start as the factory settings were miles off. I then started backing off the HSR and things were much improved. At this point i thought I had it sussed and would soon be in shock nirvana. However, I'm now fully backed off on both HSR and HSC and it's still not as plush as any of the other shocks I've tried through the rough stuff.(I'm running over 30% sag by the way).

Don't get me wrong, I'd still rate it higher than most other shocks for most of the riding I do as i do like a shock to have good control over LS events. I just reckon it shouldn't be as harsh through HS event type stuff. For a shock so adjustable i wouldn't expect to running at the extremes of the adjustment range either.

any ideas?
 

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steep fast and loose :)
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revise the shim stack by getting it tuned by Stendec, get it footprinted and get a grip.
the FR and the AM are known to need less platform and less mid stroke controllability due to their leverage ratio and Horst Link design. The CCDB still needs a fettle for your Clydesdale bulk.
All you need is a well tuned RP23. And lose 4 stone too...That'll make the biggest difference :D
 

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'All over it!'
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I have a CCDB and have struggled to find the sweet spot from the moment I had it. I eventually got hold of Malcom from CC and discovered that the shock was over sprung for my 235lb bulk. He sent me a 650lb spring and am hoping that I will be able to wind in a bit of preload where as with the 700lb spring, it was almost loose it had that little preload.

When I get it up and running, I will then start the process of fettling to find the sweet spot. I will probably be PMing you for your help!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
cheers for your helpful input Simon but as I've told you before. I've spent longer on a woman than you have on different shocks! Don't despair though I'm sure there's a forum somewhere that would benifit greatly from your knowledge and mechanical abilty...........just can't think of any off the top of my head:D
 

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steep fast and loose :)
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like i've said on the forum before, for my Turner 6 Pack, the CCDB was a necessity.
For a Helius AM or FR, the CCDB's a total non requirement. The Horst works so well that there's little need for a fully tuneable shock with excellent mid stroke control and adjustability.
regarding spring weights, then I'd agree 50# less than normal for the CCDB allowing it to sit in the mid-stroke range during normal operation.
as the linkage design of the FR / AM is so well though out and the leverage ratio is 2.8:1, then an air shock can control the action of the AM / FR no problem. It just depends on how heavy you are and the frequency you hit BIG square edged hits (Alps riders apply here, not UK based trail riders).......

al imo of course.

conclusion : the CCDB is wasted on the Helius.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
cheers Lorni. I'm probably @ 220lb geared up and am running a 550lb spring and over 30% sag. I do have a 500lb spring as well but can't see that helping. I'll maybe give it a whirl just to see. The issue appears to be spiking in the HS circuits. Like there's a lack of oil flow. Do you have an email address for Malcom at CC? I'll maybe drop him a mail to see what he says.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Simon. I'll give you a shot of the CCDB on your AM. I think you'll be well impressed(with everything other than the HS control!). I'm fairly sure that the pedal strike you've been suffering with the AM/monarch is down to the lack of LS control.

I don't think looking at leverage ratios at one point of the stroke is relavent. The 6-Pack was also @ 3:1 and a horst but the suspension acted completely different to FR/AM Nicolais. yes the Nics have more midrange support than the Turner but are still prone to blowing through the travel on LS events if there isn't sufficient damping control.

The CCDB is far from wasted on the Helius. Granted it's not a nessessity like it was on the 6-Pack but it does most things better than the other shocks. I just feel it needs more range of HS adjustment.
 

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dipper said:
Curious as to how you're getting on with it in comparison to other shocks you've tried.

Things got off to a rocky start as the factory settings were miles off. I then started backing off the HSR and things were much improved. At this point i thought I had it sussed and would soon be in shock nirvana. However, I'm now fully backed off on both HSR and HSC and it's still not as plush as any of the other shocks I've tried through the rough stuff.(I'm running over 30% sag by the way).

any ideas?
I think you need to run a bit more sag thus maybe a lighter spring.. if its not as supple as you like with all the compression off it would imply you are oversprung. Im running 35% sag and its supple on the little stuff and I use the HSC to control the big hits
 

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Nah my setting have changed since then (ill let you know what they are if i get a chance to measure them over the weekend)... im running a bit more rebound as I like a nice slow return on large big hits... and a little more compression.. I jack it up if im doing big drops and loosen it off if im trail riding..

The criteria I use are

If I pop a jump do I get to far over the bars - less LSR
If I pop a jump am I landing too back first - more LSR

Is the shock bobbing when pedalling - more LSC
Is the shock not bobbing - Less LSC until it does a little

Am I getting bucked off on big hits - More HSR
Is the back end packing up on repeated big hits - Less HSR

Am I bottoming out on big drops - More HSC
Is the ride a bit harsh - Less HSC

If you stick to those I think you get a pretty good ride with the shock

Sounds like your issues are not fixed my winding out the HSC so the next step to to lighten off the spring. I do think that winding out the HSR will be making it feel harsher than it should however... only adjust one at a time. Try adding some HSR back and see if that helps... should deaden the big hits a little.
 

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Do all of you run over 30% sag or is that only when running a ccdb.
I havent a nicolai helius fr but i want one,and will very soon and was wondering what shock to run, i was thinking of a dxh coil due to my slender 240lbs riding weight but i coould be intersted in a ccdb.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
you may be onto something with the HSR. I started with that and ended up with it backed right off. i then did the same with the HSC. Both helped but I never thought to start slowing up the HSR again as maybe the original harshness was mainly from the HSC being too slow and now it's the overly fast HSR. Can't see it being the spring as i'm already over 30% sag but I'll try that also as I should have a 500lb lying about.

Oddly, on every other shock I've tried I have the opposite issue. I reckon at 220lb geared up I'm on the limit of stock shock tuning. I usually need to run rebound damn near maxed out(closed) to control the heavier spring rates required.

Norcosam
The Nicolai FR and AM both allow you to run 30% sag using pretty much any shock while still remaining easy to pedal. The CCDB, being better controlled at low shaft speeds allows greater sag without wallowing and sagging all over the place. I've yet to try more than 35% sag but I know there are those that run 40% with the CCDB. I'm not entirely sure there's a benefit in this but I'll maybe give it a go just to be sure.
 

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Just to add to the mix I was considering a CCDB but instead chose to plump for a BOS S**Toy instead as its equal in quality and can get it service 4 miles from my house @ TFTuned.
Still waiting for it to arrive at the moment ordered it in November but Olivier Bossard was concentrating on all of the Paris Dakar shocks for the rally cars before Christmas so couldn't get the Bike Shocks made and dyno'd.

Can't imagine why he would concentrate on dozens of £5,000 pound shocks rather than my little'un........:rolleyes:

Full report will follow when it arrives :thumbsup:
 
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