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Would you be interested in a new Endurance Racer 29er?

  • Yes, I would

    Votes: 74 77.9%
  • No, I would not

    Votes: 16 16.8%
  • On the fence...bring on the guinea pigs first

    Votes: 7 7.4%
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Let's assume a company using the VPP or DWL design was willing to build an endurance racer. Also, let's assume it would be aluminum (humor me here, I'm done with carbon...for now).

Who would be interested in buying one and what would you like to see? My thoughts:

Around 4" of rear travel and a 100mm fork
5.5lb - 6 lb frame (Stiff frame is a requirement)
Snappy/fast suspension design (maybe a linear curve and medium compression shock)
70-71 degree headangle on new offset forks
17.5"- 17.75" chainstays
2.35 rear tire clearance for those who want beefier tires and a trailbike; not a racer. Minimum clearance of 2.25.

I want a nimble yet stable bike that can be ridden in 24-hour races or simply long rides where you can climb 5,000-8,000 feet, 50-100 miles, and not be beaten up or weighed down too much. It HAS to be a really efficient climber without Propedal and not too twitchy but also has to be laterally stiff.

So if someone were to come up with something like this, would you spend $2,000-$2,500 for this frame?
 

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juan_speeder said:
so then it probably wouldn't be as stiff a frame though.

I'm just suggesting that Flyer weight suggestions are a bit off if he wants a stiff alu frame. Which is the real priority or where is the best compromise in between the two?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
My powdercoated Titus Racer-X is around 6.3 and extremely stiff. I'd be happy with anything close (hydroformed/ovalized/ Ano/whatever it takes) that is reasonably stiff with 4 inches of travel. The 429 is almost 7.5 lbs. Let's make this more reasonable then and suggest 6.25 lbs...I am even happy with that. If my Racer-X was Anodized, I'd guess it would probably weigh 6 lbs.
 

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a.k.a. MTBMaven
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Flyer, you have just described the frame I'm looking for.
 

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to the OP, have you ridden a 429, jet, etc...???

I've ridden a 429 and jet extensively (is that the right word?) both could be an endurance racer. I bought the jet, price was better and with 100mm fork the BB is a tad higher then the 429 w/ 100mm fork. The 429 is a stiffer frame for sure. Maybe the new 2010 jet will be stiffer with the new tubing. I hope, as i'll be getting one due to the recall.

You really need to ride some of the current offerings if you haven't yet. And i mean really ride them for hours or days on your trails.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Look, you're not playing my game here. A great pedaling bike can actually feel lighter and fatigue you much less than a mushy bike that is 2 bs lighter but I'd like it all- stiff enough, light enough, and damn fast...and yes, many of us are willing to pay for it. I am also hoping some companies see that there is a good market for this type of bike....a perfect endurance racer.

Brutal comments- please forgive:

SC Tallboy- carbon (some simply don't want carbon)
Jet- too steep and not stiff enough
429- a bit too heavy, though a good trailbike
Racer-X- 3" only; not DWL or VPP (would prefer DWL)
NEW Racer-X- carbon rear kills it for me
Hardtail- forget it...been there...done that...not happy

Now, you gonna play my game or not?:sad:
 

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"jet- too steep and not stiff enough" So you've ridden one?

with 100mm fork on a jet it relaxes the head tube angle a little bit. plus like i said the new tubing should be stiffer, so they say.
 

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Flyer said:
I want a nimble yet stable bike that can be ridden in 24-hour races or simply long rides where you can climb 5,000-8,000 feet, 50-100 miles, and not be beaten up or weighed down too much. It HAS to be a really efficient climber without Propedal and not too twitchy but also has to be laterally stiff.

So if someone were to come up with something like this, would you spend $2,000-$2,500 for this frame?
I want Turner to produce one. I've actually been eyeing the Jet9 and new Specialized Epic 29er. I can set my V1 Sultan up to be my play bike.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Yes I have ridden a Jet, though not the brand new one. I want a frame designed for a 100mm fork right up front....and with a 70-71 degree headangle based on that A-C height. With the new offsets, a slightly slacker bike should still turn quite well with the given trail.
 

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MightySchmoePong said:
I want Turner to produce one. I've actually been eyeing the Jet9 and new Specialized Epic 29er. I can set my V1 Sultan up to be my play bike.
Dave Turner says he will build whatever you want, DW 29" Nitrous all the way to a DW Highline, IF someone can get $250,000 in paid pre-orders.

That's only 100 bikes.

Seriously. E-mail him.
 

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There's always next year.
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I know I'm not "playing", but as a 429 owner now for close to 7 months, the weight thing get played out far too much. I just put mine on the crappy bathroom scale, and came up with a bike that's about 29 pounds--and right now, and that is with Stouts front and rear, and no weight weenie parts hanging off the frame. 25 pounds may be a pipe dream for a L or XL frame size, but I think I could get to sub 26 with enough money.

I'd also wonder where the heck Pivot would cut 1-1.5 pounds off the frame AND keep the stiffness the frame is famous for. For what its worth, I know that riding my 429 has helped me lose 20 pounds this summer- to me, thats worth the 7.something pound frame.

So really, to answer the question-- I don't think I would be interested-- My 429 has opened my eyes to how much a great, super stiff frame can help my riding style. I would gladly keep my 429 in exchange for an extra pound or two...
 

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I am playing...

my game. Here's my wish list:

1. Real frame weight, size large (24.5" top tube, 19" seat tube) under 6 lbs with shock, seat collar, and all hardware.
2. DW or single pivot is fine, 4" travel for 100 mm fork, should be able to handle a 120 mm fork. Suspension tuned for efficiency.
3. Well engineered carbon is OK with me.
4. Must have open front triangle with room for a traditional water bottle cage.
5. Stable non twitchy geometry, I like a stable bike for endurance racing-it sucks to try and control a traditional race bike style geometry at high speed when you are fatigued.
6. Standard threaded BB shell, and standard tube mounting of front derailleur, compatible with XX narrow cranks, and road front derailleurs-no direct mount, or E-type derailleurs

Unlike most here, I have nothing against a well designed single pivot, anyone who thinks a single pivot cannot perform should take a test ride on a Yeti ASR. That said, the DW suspension is awesome, the problem with DW is the complex linkages are hard to engineer at low weight, and the frame is very complex: take a close look at the BB area of the Pivot 429, there is a lot going on, and it is hard to figure out how to make this lighter in weight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The ASR was my first FS bike....familiar with the ride. I think this weight thing is a good challenge and I'd think carbon would be the way to achieve that but it would be pretty cool if someone could get close with an Alu frame. I do agree that a fast DWL design with a snappy curve would make up for any weight difference but the 429 has a lot going on down there with lots of bending tubes.

We already have some good trailbikes. What I would like is a bit of innovation to create the best endurance racer possible. Hydroforming, butting, anodizing, and anything else you can achieve. If they can't hit 6 lbs, that is fine- get close but make the best pedaling bike out there. This bike could be a XC racer, an endurance racer, and a trailbike for many.
 
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