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I'm a total newb to tubeless/UST setups. If you have no patience for dumb questions, please back away from the computer now.

1st Q: does UST mean tubeless, and vice versa? (or is UST a trademarked Mavic term?)

2nd Q: I have some UST rims. I have a stack of different High Rollers and Minions, even a couple of Blue Grooves, none of which are UST. I understand these tires may work with sealant. Have any of you had good success with this setup?

If using non UST tires works; is there an advantage to buying UST versions of my preferred tires?

Pros / Cons to both setups?

Thanks.
 

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Lay off the Levers
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UST is a form of tubeless tires. Many companies use it.
You can mount std tires on a UST rim with tube, and many can be run as tubeless with sealant. Be mindful that many/most std tires don't have the same sidewall strength/stiffness as their UST counterpart tires and may be rolly/floppy at lower pressures.

Some ppl have great success with sealant. Some find it a royal PITA. YMMV

The primary difference between a std tire & Rim and a UST combo is how the tire interlocks with the rim. The UST is designed to be air tight where a std tire & rim are not. Also the inside wall of a UST is supposed to be more air tight than a std tire. These are the some of the reasons sealant is required for going tubeless on a std tire.

Pros of going true UST/UST is it just flat out works, no fuss no problems.
Pros of going std/tubeless: can be lighter, greater choice of tires, can be cheaper. (not always lighter or cheaper)

Cons of UST: fewer choices, sometimes more expensive.
Cons of std-tubeless: sealant can be a pita, sometimes trouble with certain tire/rim combos, may have flexy sidewalls. (not always on any of this)

You can run sealant in a full UST setup if you ride with lots of thorns & such.

I rarely have thorns in my area so I run full UST w/o sealant. I love the PF resistance. FWIW, I DH tubes and tires on my big bike w/o PF issues at all.
 

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I've been running tubeless for 4+ years... no going' back once you get it dialled!

I'm running mavic 819s on the XC wheels and 823s on the FR wheels.

Non- UST Maxxis tires work great tubeless- better than the UST tires from many other MFG's! Give 'em a try.

Having a compressor and stans is key to happy tubeless mounting. windex works great on the beads (better than soapy water). Make sure to wipe off the excess afterwards.
 

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Dishwasher Safe
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I used to pinch flat the rear every other ride it seemed, even at 40 PSI. Decided to give the 'ghetto' method a try and have been very pleased with the results. No issues so far including dozens of runs at Big Bear and N*.
 

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Yes, No, Yes, and Yes!

Nick. said:
I'm a total newb to tubeless/UST setups. If you have no patience for dumb questions, please back away from the computer now.

1st Q: does UST mean tubeless, and vice versa? (or is UST a trademarked Mavic term?)

2nd Q: I have some UST rims. I have a stack of different High Rollers and Minions, even a couple of Blue Grooves, none of which are UST. I understand these tires may work with sealant. Have any of you had good success with this setup?

If using non UST tires works; is there an advantage to buying UST versions of my preferred tires?

Pros / Cons to both setups?

Thanks.
Nick,

Not trying to be a smartass as my title implies, but here goes:

1. A UST mark on a tire means that it can be run tubeless or with a tube. A UST mark on a rim means that it has a specially designed and constructed bead to hold a UST tire, also with a trademarked bead design on it.

2. I currently run non-UST Maxxis Minions 2.7 3C DH casing tires on a set of Mavic UST 823 rims with Stan's sealant on a DH bike running 30psi front, 35psi rear and never a hiccup, much less a burp.

3. UST tires will always have about 1.5 ply in the sidewall versus DH casing tires which have 2 ply. The reason for the 1.5 ply in the UST version versus single ply as in most XC tires is that you can run UST tires at lower psi and not have the sidewall flex.

For example, I tried to run a pair of Maxxis Advantage 2.4 non-UST tires on my AM bike with UST 819 rims and the bike was a wiggle worm at 30 F, 35 R psi. They mounted fine with Stan's but were useless in anything but a straight line.

I never had as good of an experience running non-UST rims with tubeless kits and sealant as I have had with UST rims and tires. In addition, I have been running tubeless now since 2001 without a flat! :thumbsup:
 

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steve47co1 said:
For example, I tried to run a pair of Maxxis Advantage 2.4 non-UST tires on my AM bike with UST 819 rims and the bike was a wiggle worm at 30 F, 35 R psi. They mounted fine with Stan's but were useless in anything but a straight line.
Hey Steve, if you look at the sidewalls on those tires, the suggested pressure range is 35-65psi. And that's with tubes! So it's no surprise you didn't have a positive experience.

I ran that same tire tubeless on my RFX for a good bit of last summer. I ran 40psi, and due to the supple sidewalls it actually rode well, on loamy conditions, even some whistler XC. I really appreciated the weight savings on long rides with lots of climbing. However the shortcomings were pretty apparent on wet days. I never got a flat with that tire, but did blow it completely off the rim landing a 4' drop at high speeds up at whistler. Bottom line, it makes a good, light tubless rear tire for dry trail riding. It's not a freeride tire though, for sure. I'll run mine again next summer for the sub-alpine XC stuff here.
 

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Nick. said:
thx Zilla

You use 823s, yes? What tires are you using?
Hey Nick.

Yeah I'm using EX823s F&R on my Highline (love that bike) and I had one leftover from my RFX so I'm running an EX823 rear on my Spot (love that bike too :D ). It's overkill but hell, it's on a gold CK hub so WTF. I have a Mavic XMXL on the front...and a spare XMXL rear that I use when I think the 823 is going to be too heavy(hardly ever). But then I ride mostly low mileage high techy stuff so it's not often about the spin for me.

Tires, I'm a Maxxis fan. Love the High Rollers, love the Ardents even more. Looking forward to tying the Minions on the Highline. Qualifier: NE type trails.

I have run the UST MHRs in 2.1, 2.3 & 2.5 (they run small). Seal great stay seated on UST rims no problem. My rear tire tended to burp below 35psi but I'm heavy and ride a lot of square edges and wedged corners.

Seating UST on UST is usually easy with a floor pump and soapy water. A compresser is a lot easier especially with new tires, which can be stiff and harder to get started or seat the very first time. I only use a compresser if I'm having trouble, that's rare. Usually I just dip a sponge in some soapy water, wipe the bead of the tire and wipe the bead of the rim, mount the tire, tuck the bead into the center chanel and pump away. On one set of tires I had, I couldn't get them to lift up out of the center chanel w/o a compresser. Everything else was good. I never tried windex, I might give that a go next time.

I used to run UST exclusively since '03 till I started running the DH Ardents with thicker tubes last year.

IMO for average tires, non-ust tires and regular tubes don't save much if any weight at all over many standard UST tires. It's now about price and choice and price is almost a non-issue now.
 

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Ply is the answer

FM said:
Hey Steve, if you look at the sidewalls on those tires, the suggested pressure range is 35-65psi. And that's with tubes! So it's no surprise you didn't have a positive experience.

I ran that same tire tubeless on my RFX for a good bit of last summer. I ran 40psi, and due to the supple sidewalls it actually rode well, on loamy conditions, even some whistler XC. I really appreciated the weight savings on long rides with lots of climbing. However the shortcomings were pretty apparent on wet days. I never got a flat with that tire, but did blow it completely off the rim landing a 4' drop at high speeds up at whistler. Bottom line, it makes a good, light tubless rear tire for dry trail riding. It's not a freeride tire though, for sure. I'll run mine again next summer for the sub-alpine XC stuff here.
Hey FM,

You sparked my curiosity, so I just went out to the garage and looked at three different tires and they all said the same thing - 36 - 65psi min/max; even my UST Minion DHF 2.5 DH casing.

I also have a set of Schwalbe Big Betty UST 2.4's and they say 30-60psi min/max. So, I don't think that the min/max pressure is the factor; rather, I think it is the sidewall ply and those advantages are a "skinny" one ply sidewall.

Anyway, the Advantages went to a good home in AK - to Tscheezy.:thumbsup:
 

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Some time in 05 I was on a Spot with WTB Weirwolf tires and got 3 pinch flats in a ride - I said eff that and ordered 819s from Jenson when I got home. Those rims are still going strong and have been on 2 spots and a Flux. I have had 823s and 819s on 2 different RFXs also. For me they just plain work - I have had one flat since I adopted UST - which was a nail if I recall. I always put a scoop or so of Stans in but not necessary (like Zilla said). There are plenty of UST tubeless tires these days for most types of riding. I have had most success with using UST tires - but plenty people I know run regular tires with UST rims. I have also tried stans rim strips and sealant on regular rims with little success. If I were you I would just get a UST tire which is the same as a non UST tire you like the most and give it a whirl. For all mtn riding High Rollers are my favourite FWIW.
 

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Some other factors to consider!

I was and am still a big fan of UST and may go back one day at mo though back on tubes through most of 07!
sat out all of 08

UST vs Non UST

1: RIM width!

A key factor, that can have a major bearing on tire contact patch, grip, traction and cornering, also PSI levels.

2: Tire Volume and type! Larger sizes side wall weights tread patterns all vary greatly from manufacturers and even model this is the mystery of tires in itself and can be a very personal thing!

3; It can come down to your bike, ride style, terrain setup, what you like, how I ride and what characteristic's I like in a tire may not suit you, even my PSI variances may not suit you and few less or more here can alter this allot in both UST and std tires!

So lots to think about!

Ive been running 2plys with Maxxis Minions and welter weights no issues with flats but I run wide rims, I use talc powder in my rims always have done for years with inner tubes, no flats, I think I may have had 2 in I duno how many years but not from JRA hard hard casing no tire UST or tubed would have survived, UST would have been a mess, of explosion lol!

I probably would use UST again in 2.3 or less or on a SS hardtail maybe but 2.4 above I'm not sure, I might experiment in future now I'm pretty settled in my tire choices, I'm might try UST Minion ST since the SRs are so hard to get now and if the Ardent is ver made in UST then that would be good on the rear! for extra traction for a low tread with high volume!

But go wider rim to give good side wall support, this is key for any tire tubed or UST and will prevent snake bites flats etc!

I would like t try DH in UST to test some theories if I ever DH again but need too wheel sets bugga changing UST tires over all the time that's another PIA!

I can change std over by hand very quick!

Just some other thoughts!
 

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only bad thing about tubeless, is if you are clowning around on the bike, doing jumps, drops, etc - sideways landing, getting sloppy, etc....it's not a matter of "if", but "when" you will burp your tire sideways and lose all the pressure.....

It's happened more often than not on my tubeless equipped 1x9'er that I often refrain from getting crazy on that bike. However, my tube equipped spot remains so, even though I have tubeless rims on the bike! I just like the security tubed tires offer when your plans don't always work out. I've rolled tubed tires before, but never had the disasterous + hindenburg-esque blow outs that tubeless tires offer up when the chips are down....

Other than that caviat, tubeless tires are wonderful for XC riding! [no pinch flats!!!]
 

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jokermtb said:
only bad thing about tubeless, is if you are clowning around on the bike, doing jumps, drops, etc - sideways landing, getting sloppy, etc....it's not a matter of "if", but "when" you will burp your tire sideways and lose all the pressure.....

It's happened more often than not on my tubeless equipped 1x9'er that I often refrain from getting crazy on that bike. However, my tube equipped spot remains so, even though I have tubeless rims on the bike! I just like the security tubed tires offer when your plans don't always work out. I've rolled tubed tires before, but never had the disasterous + hindenburg-esque blow outs that tubeless tires offer up when the chips are down....

Other than that caviat, tubeless tires are wonderful for XC riding! [no pinch flats!!!]
Drops, jumps, sideways landings, sloppy = sounds like a good ride!

Which system were you using that gave you problems - UST, Stans, or Ghetto? Which rims and tires? How much pressure? Thanks.
 

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I rarely get a burp on a UST tire, and I do plenty of stupid sloppy things, on fairly rocky terrain.
I'd rather have a burp or two and still be able to ride w/o any issue than to PF and have to swap tubes.

But that's just me.
 

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No flats in two years

I cannot imagine running tubes again on my all mountain bike. I run tubes on my 29er and hate them because I get the dreaded flats. I run Mavic tubeless UST. I'm not down on the DIY stuff....

Jaybo
 

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I have an 819 front and 823 rear on my DHR. My other Turner currently has a DT 5.1 setup tubeless with a Stan's kit. The Mavic UST rims are, in my opinion, the best all-around hoops you can buy.

The only 2 brands of tires I ride are Maxxis and Michelin. The Maxxis 2-ply tires are VERY tubeless-friendly. Pour a bit of Stan's sealant in there and mount 'em up. I prefer the regular Maxxis 2-ply DH tires over their UST version because you can get them in different compounds (Slow Reazy, 3C vs. ST42 only for UST) and they mount up the same.

Michelin DH tires are all UST. The DH16 and Mud3 are currently my tires of choice. Same deal... pour a little sealant in (just to be safe), mount 'em up. Go shred.
 
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