While I've never ridden there, I agree with you. If they are requiring people to use a permit, they should make them readily available. The easier to get them, the better. It seems like a no brainer to me.
Who else rides Wissahiccon without a permit?????
I have been riding at valley green since 92. I was at the first meeting The fairmount park comm had back in the mid 90's concerning the usage of the park/permits.
I used to send in a $20 per permit "Donation" every year(always got 3, in case any freinds from out of the area wanted to ride there with me). But last year, my check was cashed, never got a pass. I didnt get a pass this year, still ride there maybe 2x a month without a prob.
Every time I mailed in my permit form I mentioned that they should have the permits available at the Valley green inn or local bike shops, if it were easier to get them, many more people would go thru the trouble to get them. Or have day passes available at Valley green inn for like $2. In 10+ years riding there only once did a ranger ask to see if I had a permit. This was the 2nd year permits were required there.
Im not saying to not get a permit, just wondering if anyone else thinks like I do. The permit should be easier to get. BTW I participated in the poker run last year, and will do so this year as well. I would gladly pay $50 a year to ride there. The FPC just needs to make them easier to get.
I used to send in a $20 per permit "Donation" every year(always got 3, in case any freinds from out of the area wanted to ride there with me). But last year, my check was cashed, never got a pass. I didnt get a pass this year, still ride there maybe 2x a month without a prob.
Every time I mailed in my permit form I mentioned that they should have the permits available at the Valley green inn or local bike shops, if it were easier to get them, many more people would go thru the trouble to get them. Or have day passes available at Valley green inn for like $2. In 10+ years riding there only once did a ranger ask to see if I had a permit. This was the 2nd year permits were required there.
Im not saying to not get a permit, just wondering if anyone else thinks like I do. The permit should be easier to get. BTW I participated in the poker run last year, and will do so this year as well. I would gladly pay $50 a year to ride there. The FPC just needs to make them easier to get.
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I also have not gotten a pass the last two years. Odd actually but I don't even think about it. I end up giving more as it is a tax donation.Bry03cobra said:I have been riding at valley green since 92. I was at the first meeting The fairmount park comm had back in the mid 90's concerning the usage of the park/permits.
I used to send in a $20 per permit "Donation" every year(always got 3, in case any freinds from out of the area wanted to ride there with me). But last year, my check was cashed, never got a pass. I didnt get a pass this year, still ride there maybe 2x a month without a prob.
Every time I mailed in my permit form I mentioned that they should have the permits available at the Valley green inn or local bike shops, if it were easier to get them, many more people would go thru the trouble to get them. Or have day passes available at Valley green inn for like $2. In 10+ years riding there only once did a ranger ask to see if I had a permit. This was the 2nd year permits were required there.
Im not saying to not get a permit, just wondering if anyone else thinks like I do. The permit should be easier to get. BTW I participated in the poker run last year, and will do so this year as well. I would gladly pay $50 a year to ride there. The FPC just needs to make them easier to get.
i've had no problem getting my pass the last 2 years.
while i do agree they it would be nice if they were available at the inn they aren't hard to come by if you spend 2 minutes searching on google.
while i do agree they it would be nice if they were available at the inn they aren't hard to come by if you spend 2 minutes searching on google.
And this year?
Bob
How many weeks does it typically take? I'm pretty sure it was at least a month ago that we rode together on the day they were giving out temporary passes and signed up for the '06 pass. Nothing in my mailbox yet....lanceh said:i've had no problem getting my pass the last 2 years.
while i do agree they it would be nice if they were available at the inn they aren't hard to come by if you spend 2 minutes searching on google.
Bob
fpc needs to get there sh!t together.
i think they should put in pay lots like they do down in fairhill and whiteclay. why make mtb's pay all the trail maintenence....
and with that said, i have no pass... it is really just a piss poor design. for example i have three bikes i could ride in the park. do i need 3 passes? my girlfirend has two so i now need 5?
i will mail in for a pass one of these days just cause i support giving money to fpc for the lovely trails i ride all the time, but the indiviual bike pass idea is just lame!
i think they should put in pay lots like they do down in fairhill and whiteclay. why make mtb's pay all the trail maintenence....
and with that said, i have no pass... it is really just a piss poor design. for example i have three bikes i could ride in the park. do i need 3 passes? my girlfirend has two so i now need 5?
i will mail in for a pass one of these days just cause i support giving money to fpc for the lovely trails i ride all the time, but the indiviual bike pass idea is just lame!
I haven't gotten one this year but last year they had a table set up near the Bells Mill Road parking lot selling them. Had that not been there I wouldn't have even know you needed one.
Have not ridden there… yet – but agree it needs to be very simple.
White clay is a good example – however the first time I was there, at the lot where I parked they had no envelopes – so I didn’t pay and that was on memorial day – come on park rangers – lets stay on top of these things. Last weekend I went and envelopes where there – I gladly paid my $6 for those lovely trails!
If they want to collect money and enforce something like this they need to make it feasible for trail users to do so – ALL TRAIL USERS – wheels or no wheels. Had I not jumped on MTBR – I would never have known that you even need a pass there.
Just my $.02
White clay is a good example – however the first time I was there, at the lot where I parked they had no envelopes – so I didn’t pay and that was on memorial day – come on park rangers – lets stay on top of these things. Last weekend I went and envelopes where there – I gladly paid my $6 for those lovely trails!
If they want to collect money and enforce something like this they need to make it feasible for trail users to do so – ALL TRAIL USERS – wheels or no wheels. Had I not jumped on MTBR – I would never have known that you even need a pass there.
Just my $.02
Max,
You only need one permit per person. Doesn't matter if you have one bike or 50, or none at all for that matter. It's a 'trail user' permit, and it *was* originally for ALL users - including hikers and equestrians - who use any trail in the park EXCEPT Forbidden Drive.
Re: your different bikes - just attach the permit (it's like a snap-on wristband) to your camelbak or your helmet. It doesn't cost anything to get one, and it's certainly worth doing. It's sort of like an informal (and not-entirely-accurate) census of who's doing what in the park and with what frequency. Helps FPC, and - more improtantly - it gives you a leg to stand on when the 'millitant hiker' types question your presence on the trail. Nothing's more gratifying than showing them your user permit and asking to see theirs -- only to see the bewildered look on their faces and hear their excuses for why they don't have one.**see below** I ran into one couple who wouldn't give me the time of day, so I said, "You have a really nice day, too!" This lady started cursing at me and told me to "get out of here!!". I stayed calm and cheery and did my best to engage her in conversation to find out why she felt more entitled than I was to be in the park. I rode along slowly with this couple (much to her annoyance, I'm sure) while trying to provide level-headed, well thought-out counterpoints to her childlike rants about cyclists destroying 'her' park. She was really off the deep-end, refusing to admit that hikers and even horses could have ANY negative impact at all. She was totally convinced that every bit of erosion was a direct result of MTB traffic.
Suffice to say, we got on to the topic of maintenance and volunteer work (of which she'd openly admitted to never having done "Why would I? *You're* the ones destroying the place!" Eventually, things like the poker run, the cooperation between FOW and JAR, etc. came up. When I showed her my permit and inquired as to whether she and her husband had them. . .she was speechless. Then, "I didn't know there were permits. How do we get those?"
Ah, it was fun.
**Note** I just checked this year's application, and it seems they no longer require permits for hikers (only bikers and equestrians 16 yrs or older) - so you can't have fun calling out the hikers any more. . .but we could write to FPC and demand an 'all or nothing' approach to permits. Or not...
Anyway, you can get this year's application here if anyone wants one:
http://www.fairmountpark.org/pdf/Trail User Permit Application.pdf
You only need one permit per person. Doesn't matter if you have one bike or 50, or none at all for that matter. It's a 'trail user' permit, and it *was* originally for ALL users - including hikers and equestrians - who use any trail in the park EXCEPT Forbidden Drive.
Re: your different bikes - just attach the permit (it's like a snap-on wristband) to your camelbak or your helmet. It doesn't cost anything to get one, and it's certainly worth doing. It's sort of like an informal (and not-entirely-accurate) census of who's doing what in the park and with what frequency. Helps FPC, and - more improtantly - it gives you a leg to stand on when the 'millitant hiker' types question your presence on the trail. Nothing's more gratifying than showing them your user permit and asking to see theirs -- only to see the bewildered look on their faces and hear their excuses for why they don't have one.**see below** I ran into one couple who wouldn't give me the time of day, so I said, "You have a really nice day, too!" This lady started cursing at me and told me to "get out of here!!". I stayed calm and cheery and did my best to engage her in conversation to find out why she felt more entitled than I was to be in the park. I rode along slowly with this couple (much to her annoyance, I'm sure) while trying to provide level-headed, well thought-out counterpoints to her childlike rants about cyclists destroying 'her' park. She was really off the deep-end, refusing to admit that hikers and even horses could have ANY negative impact at all. She was totally convinced that every bit of erosion was a direct result of MTB traffic.
Suffice to say, we got on to the topic of maintenance and volunteer work (of which she'd openly admitted to never having done "Why would I? *You're* the ones destroying the place!" Eventually, things like the poker run, the cooperation between FOW and JAR, etc. came up. When I showed her my permit and inquired as to whether she and her husband had them. . .she was speechless. Then, "I didn't know there were permits. How do we get those?"
Ah, it was fun.
**Note** I just checked this year's application, and it seems they no longer require permits for hikers (only bikers and equestrians 16 yrs or older) - so you can't have fun calling out the hikers any more. . .but we could write to FPC and demand an 'all or nothing' approach to permits. Or not...
Anyway, you can get this year's application here if anyone wants one:
http://www.fairmountpark.org/pdf/Trail User Permit Application.pdf
max-a-mill said:fpc needs to get there sh!t together.
and with that said, i have no pass... it is really just a piss poor design. for example i have three bikes i could ride in the park. do i need 3 passes? my girlfirend has two so i now need 5?
i will mail in for a pass one of these days just cause i support giving money to fpc for the lovely trails i ride all the time, but the indiviual bike pass idea is just lame!
when we rode i was signing up for a 2nd pass (so i didn't have to remember to switch back and forth) and it only took about a week or so to get to me.Call_me_Clyde said:How many weeks does it typically take? I'm pretty sure it was at least a month ago that we rode together on the day they were giving out temporary passes and signed up for the '06 pass. Nothing in my mailbox yet....
Bob
that is funny.Stick said:Max,
You only need one permit per person. Doesn't matter if you have one bike or 50, or none at all for that matter. It's a 'trail user' permit, and it *was* originally for ALL users - including hikers and equestrians - who use any trail in the park EXCEPT Forbidden Drive.
Re: your different bikes - just attach the permit (it's like a snap-on wristband) to your camelbak or your helmet. It doesn't cost anything to get one, and it's certainly worth doing. It's sort of like an informal (and not-entirely-accurate) census of who's doing what in the park and with what frequency. Helps FPC, and - more improtantly - it gives you a leg to stand on when the 'millitant hiker' types question your presence on the trail. Nothing's more gratifying than showing them your user permit and asking to see theirs -- only to see the bewildered look on their faces and hear their excuses for why they don't have one.**see below** I ran into one couple who wouldn't give me the time of day, so I said, "You have a really nice day, too!" This lady started cursing at me and told me to "get out of here!!". I stayed calm and cheery and did my best to engage her in conversation to find out why she felt more entitled than I was to be in the park. I rode along slowly with this couple (much to her annoyance, I'm sure) while trying to provide level-headed, well thought-out counterpoints to her childlike rants about cyclists destroying 'her' park. She was really off the deep-end, refusing to admit that hikers and even horses could have ANY negative impact at all. She was totally convinced that every bit of erosion was a direct result of MTB traffic.
Suffice to say, we got on to the topic of maintenance and volunteer work (of which she'd openly admitted to never having done "Why would I? *You're* the ones destroying the place!" Eventually, things like the poker run, the cooperation between FOW and JAR, etc. came up. When I showed her my permit and inquired as to whether she and her husband had them. . .she was speechless. Then, "I didn't know there were permits. How do we get those?"
Ah, it was fun.
**Note** I just checked this year's application, and it seems they no longer require permits for hikers (only bikers and equestrians 16 yrs or older) - so you can't have fun calling out the hikers any more. . .but we could write to FPC and demand an 'all or nothing' approach to permits. Or not...
Anyway, you can get this year's application here if anyone wants one:
http://www.fairmountpark.org/pdf/Trail User Permit Application.pdf
when i got stopped a few weeks ago by the rangers (they were out checking for and giving out temporary permits one weekend) they said it needed to be attached to your bike. i didn't feel like being a [email protected] so i just let them put one on the bike i was currently riding (one which i really dont ride that often) and moved on.
i did sign their petition, and they told me i'd be getting my permit application in the mail and that never hpappened either.
now i work for the city and know how ridiculously underfunded and staffed the fpc is but come on... they really do need to get there sh!t together a little better and make this permit thing for everyone or no one.
and if they are gonna try to make it stick they need to actually go out and check them once in a while. other than my one encounter during the permit blitz i previously mentioned i have NEVER seen a park ranger, and quite frankly that is fine by me, but if they never enforce the permits why do they think anyone will use them? :skep:
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
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