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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Here is list and see maps in second url. Anybody interested in commenting or discussing the final plan ?

http://a123.g.akamai.net/7/123/1155...mai.com/11558/www/nepa/1118_FSPLT2_049065.pdf

From site:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/f...lfull&pname=White River National Forest- Home

For the inevitable troll toned comments (yes I know you can't help yourself...), yes it is final, but for anyone with constructive time on there hands that actually ride these areas; how will this impact your mountain rides now ? (if at all.) There is an awful lot of old double track closures.
 

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Here is list and see maps in second url. Anybody interested in commenting or discussing the final plan ?

http://a123.g.akamai.net/7/123/1155...mai.com/11558/www/nepa/1118_FSPLT2_049065.pdf

From site:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/f...lfull&pname=White River National Forest- Home

For the inevitable stupid troll comments (yes I know you can't help yourself...), yes it is final, but for anyone with constructive time on there hands that actually ride these areas; how will this impact your mountain rides now ? (if at all.) There is an awful lot of old double track closures.
I can only comment on Summit County. There is a lot there to examine so even folks who've looked at it closely can easily miss things. My impression is that in the overall balance the TMP is very much positive for Mtn biking. If you are of the opinion that there should be little or no restrictions on where you can ride your bike then you wont agree that.

Most of the old double track closures you mention are dead end spurs or redundant parallel routes. There are some things that don't make sense that I'm trying to get some clarification on.
There are others both positive and negative that are escaping me at the moment.
+
All previously system singletrack trails that were open to MTBs remain so
All the Soda Creek trails are now system
Most of the Ryan Gulch trails now system
Great Flume and great flume extension now system and non motorized
Little French flumes (yes, there's more than one) now system
Bemrose trail now summer system
Many Barton Creek(s) timber sale road system and non motorized.
Much of the Rainbow lake/Mt Royal trail system brought into the system.
Many Golden Horseshoe trails and roads now system. Some were not due to inability to get easements through private property.
(not so) secret trail off Boreas Pass into system
Aspen Grove trail into system
CDT trail between Morgan Peak and Warden Gulch open to MTB

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360 trail closed. This was getting very chewed up by motos.
Stables trail off Boreas Pass Rd
Old Ten Mile Creek RR grade closed (This doesn't make sense since it's a utilities easement).
CDT from Morgan peak south closed to MTB.
Some obscure singletracks didn't get inventoried and thus considered closed


As I said, if you think there should be little or no restrictions on mtn biking and trails, then you won't be satisfied. I'm more positive and when Iook at what is a trail system with hundreds of miles of great legal trails I see that as very positive.

As I've also said, A TMP isn't a set in stone document. It's a planning and managemetn guideline. New routes can be brought in and old routes can be decommisioned through the NEPA process.
 

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lone rider
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Summer Strategy
Categories of allowable uses in the Summer Strategies columns are titled in bold below:
Licensed Only - Roads open to licensed motorized only (highway legal)
Licensed and Unlicensed - Roads open to licensed and unlicensed (all vehicles)
Motorized Vehicles < 50” Trails open to motorized vehicles less than 50 inches in in
width (ATV)
Motorcycles - Trails open to 2-wheeled motor vehicles (motorcycles)
Mechanized (bicycles) - Trails open to mechanized vehicles (bicycles)

Foot and Horse (animal) - Trails open to animal (horse) and foot traffic only)
Foot – Trails open to foot traffic only
Managed Under SUP - Roads and trails managed under special use permits(SUP)
Closed to the Public - Roads and trails closed to the public or decommissioned
Note:
All motorized and mechanized modes of travel must be on designated routes.
Highway legal vehicles are considered motor vehicles licensed under State law for
general operation on all public roads within the state.
Animal (horse) and foot (hike) are allowed to travel cross country (off trail) and generally
on all routes. There are some routes that may limit animal (horse) or foot (hike) use for
safety reasons.

Notes:
Summer travel period begins May 21 at 00:00 and ends November 22 at 23:59. All motorized and mechanized modes of travel must be on designated routes. All motorized categories generally allow mechanized (bicycle), animal (horse), and foot (hike) unless otherwise specified. All mechanized will allow animal (horse) and foot (hike) unless otherwise specified. Animal (horse) and foot (hike) are allowed to travel across country and generally on all routes. There are some routes that limit animal (horse) use for safety reasons. There may be some routes that are specific to a particular use only that does not fit the standard use categories. These and other exceptions will be specifically noted in a separate table.

I don't like the way this has evolved.

CDT no bikes:
Grays to Argentine
Santa Fe mine rd to Red Cone
Webster Pass to Georgia Pass - rd from middle fork to be decommissioned

The other one I don’t like is the old rd. on the west side of the tunnel to the top of the divide. Horse an hiker only
I was going to ride that this year. Screws up a nice big loop .

The route from Ptarmigan Pass to Kokomo Pass is to be decommissioned as well.
Been thinking about that one for a while. Bummer.
 

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Stiff yet compliant
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All motorized and mechanized modes of travel must be on designated routes
Is this a new policy for WRNF? People should probably expect to see this type of rule eventually adopted statewide where is hasn't been already. Making all social trails illegal to ride.
 

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lone rider
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Is this a new policy for WRNF? People should probably expect to see this type of rule eventually adopted statewide where is hasn't been already. Making all social trails illegal to ride.
How’s the herpes ?

Don’t see it on the Arapaho Roosevelt site yet.
Pedal along numbered roads and trails except in wilderness areas or other trails as posted ….

Why are mountain bikers being discriminated against when it comes to cross country (off trail) travel outside of the wilderness? What law are we violating?
 

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How’s the herpes ?

Don’t see it on the Arapaho Roosevelt site yet.
Pedal along numbered roads and trails except in wilderness areas or other trails as posted ….

Why are mountain bikers being discriminated against when it comes to cross country (off trail) travel outside of the wilderness? What law are we violating?

Off trail travel has been illegal for a while on not just the White River but the entire Forest Service and I'm not totally sure but I think the BLM also. (Dept of Agriculture and Dept of Interior are totally different agencies.) It's not just Mtn Bikes either but all summer motor vehicles. (over snow motorized travel is permitted in some areas.) As to social trails the policy is trails are considered closed unless designated open. For this reason it will behoove all MTB groups to help with the on the ground identification, mapping and signing of open trails.

There are some circumstances in some Forest Plan management prescriptions for special management areas.that can allow for XC travel off designated routes for things like Moto (or potential MTB) play areas. It's very helpful to understand your local Forest Plan, what areas are under what prescription, and what all the various prescriptions mean.

I've always found it amazing how little most people know about and how uninvolved they are with how the public land they use is managed. Believe it or not, most of the folks I've worked with in the FS welcome the help and input.
 

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Stiff yet compliant
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Off trail travel has been illegal for a while on not just the White River but the entire Forest Service
Are you suuuure about that? I have never seen any National Forest Service rule that restricts bicycles to open routes. I am only aware of such regulation for motorized vehicles.
Without such a rule it in not strictly illegal to use a social trail.
 

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lone rider
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Also.…
How did it go from non-motorized (hike-horse-bike) to
Animal (horse) and foot (hike)
Mechanized (bicycles) - Trails open to mechanized vehicles (bicycles) ?

I can see it in the wildernesses..... but come on! That's some BS.
 

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Stiff yet compliant
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Also.…
How did it go from non-motorized (hike-horse-bike) to
Animal (horse) and foot (hike)
Mechanized (bicycles) - Trails open to mechanized vehicles (bicycles) ?

I can see it in the wildernesses..... but come on! That's some BS.
Use of the word mechanized is something cyclists should oppose whenever possible.
 

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lone rider
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Federal Register 2005
Comment. Some respondents
suggested that bicycles should be
included in the prohibition on use of
motor vehicles off designated roads and
trails and outside designated areas.
Response. The Department disagrees
that bicycles should be regulated under
the same provisions as motor vehicle
use. The Department believes that
bicycles are distinct from motor vehicles
and should be managed separately from
them and that a nation-wide prohibition
on cross-country bicycle use is
unwarranted at this time. Noise (and its
impacts on wildlife and other users) is
a critical distinction between bicycles
and motor vehicles. Other differences
can (depending on the vehicle) include
speed, power, weight, and tread width.
Like all uses, including hiking,
horseback riding, and motor vehicle use,
bicycling has environmental impacts
and can affect the experience of other
users. Local Forest Service officials
retain authority to regulate bicycle use
according to their local situation and
needs. Some National Forests, through
travel plans and orders, restrict bicycles
to particular roads and trails. Others
allow cross-country bicycling
from: http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/recreation/travel_mgmt/travel-rule/finalrule.pdf
How did it go from non-motorized (hike-horse-bike) to Animal (horse) and foot (hike)
Mechanized (bicycles) ?
more useless reading http://www.blm.gov/mountain_biking/final_text.pdf

Takes an act of congress to get bikes into the wilderness, but they can change the rules whenever they want and you lemmings go right along with it.
They are taking your liberties from you right before your eyes!
no riding in wilderness-no cross country (off trail) riding - no riding horse /hiker only trails
 

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I've always found it amazing how little most people know about and how uninvolved they are with how the public land they use is managed. Believe it or not, most of the folks I've worked with in the FS welcome the help and input.
I've always found it amazing how people will just make stuff up and then act smug and condescending to appear as though they know what they are talking about.
 
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