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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I currently ride an 03 Id and am looking to upgrade to later technology, lighter bike. I enjoy the stability of the Id but--at 5'7" 165lb and 29" inseam--the medium I have is a bit "tall", and has no standover, and it rides a bit tall. I don't really need the coil-over Romic shock, as I don't do drops to speak of. Also, we do a LOT of climbing here (Idaho), and the Id makes you work for it! I figure the Epiphany might be the bike to move to and both enhance climbing and keep the downhill reliability I'm used to, and shave a few pounds while I'm at it.

LBS suggests a small frame Epi (they have both), but I'm not so sure. Can anyone comment on the differences one might expect in small and medium Epi? Standover height is the same; the top tube is a bit longer on Med. LBS says ride the smallest bike possible to give better control on twisty trails (which we do have), but an Ellsworth rep suggested medium better for climbing, as sitting position wouldn't be a "cramped" as with small.

And has anyone ridden a Pace 41 on Epi? If so, how does it hold up and--if there have been any maintenance issues--how easy is it to get serviced?

Thanks!
Dave
 

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Silver bullet
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I haven't ridden an Epi yet and I'm afraid to becuase I already have an 05 Moment and just bought an 06 Truth. I'm afraid if I ride one I'll have to buy it. I bought the Moment for fun and Truth to race. I'm 6' 185 pounds and decided to go with a large Moment last year and when I went for the Truth I was going to go for a large again. The shop I bought if from felt I would fit better on an medium so I went with thier suggestion. I feel "cramped"!! I wish I bought a large.
You don't mention what size Id you had but if you were comfortable with that I would say stick with a comparable size. Sure a smaller would corner good but you need to not be cramped so you can breath on long climbs (and short ones too). I even feel cramped trying to manuver the bike through tight stuff.
I can't help you with the Pace. I haven't gone there.

Good luck.:thumbsup:
 

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Smaller is better

i am 5. 9 and ride a small Reign untill recently i viewed my self as a large, untill i did some proper reasearch in to siezing and geometry for intended use...buying a small frame was like wakeing up to find i can walk after being a criple it was such a revalation....give a small a good ride then disscide.
 

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Go with a medium OP,with a shorter stem.You will 'feel' better on it,especially during all the climbing you do in your area.Also,why the need for 5+ inches ? If you dont do drops 'to speak of' and want a lighter frame,plus you are no clyde,and want a good climber... I say grab a 16" Truth,test ride one if you can. :thumbsup: Why the interest in Pace?,when RS,and Fox,as well as White Bros,and Maverick make great forks on this side of the pond.For what you say you want to do,and the terrain you talk of,the 16" Truth seems a wonderful fit.
 

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I went from a med Isis to a small Moment and I feel that the there are trade offs to each size for me. I'm 5'7" with a 30" inseam. The Isis was long, but I was able to build it so that it rode comfortably, though it was never really "snappy" in the turns.

The small Moment is easy to maneuver, but I've had to use a layback post, which I did not have on the Isis, to get it to feel like the proper length for me.

I rode a medium Epiphany not too long ago and I think it was identical to the med Isis in the way it felt. I didn't ride it for a long time, however, and it was not set up for me, per se. Again, it was long in the TT and made me feel a bit over stretched, but not so much that I was uncomfortable. I think a shorter stem and narrower bars would have made a difference on this bike for me.

The bigger bikes will have a longer wheelbase which will add some DH stability, but you will suffer some maneuverability - unless you use a shorter fork, like maybe a Marathon, which would steepen the HA and make it quicker.

Personally, I think you could get either size and make it work for you. That's a benefit that we have at this "average" height that maybe other folks wouldn't have. For ID (Idaho), I'd pick the small, if you're looking for a judgement.
 

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I have your same height and inseam. I too was in your same situation, right in between a small and a medium.

My LBS recommended the small for better maneuverability and descents. He said that the epiphany is so efficient and stable that I didn't need to go w/ the medium. I wanted a second opinion so I called Ellsworth, and spoke to some lady, who also recommended going with a medium (just like they recomended for you). However, when I asked her why, all she could say is that's what the specs call for. (I too can read the specs on their website, was hoping to get more from her) She didn't ask about my inseam, my riding style or what kind of trails I ride. I would normally take the opinion of a bike rep over an LBS, but in this case, she just didn't sound very knowlegeable about their bikes. I think she just read a chart. Anyway, after listening to the Ellsworth rep and my LBS I decided to go w/ my LBS and get the small. No regrets! It's quick, agile, climbs great and decscends very well.

I think with your twisty trails you might benefit from the small. If however you do more long xc riding the medium might be a better way to go.
 

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Top tube length is the main issue

How long is your current bike top tube? If you like that length, then go for the Epi that most mirrors your top tube and make up the difference with the appropriate stem length choice.

I am 5'10", ride a medium Epiphany with a 110mm stem. Shows a looottt of seatpost, but rides nice. Feels not too short and is nice and quick. Would be compatible with someone shorter by a few inches.

My wife is 5' 4" and rides a small Epiphany also with a 110mm stem. It is the perfect size for her. Long legs short torso there.

5' 7" is definitely tweener. My background is more long ride xc-ish, so I would ere to the longer bike, but again figure out what top tube length you prefer and adjust.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Rode a small Epi yesterday

Thanks for all of the input, folks; your comments very helpful.

Before I do a ride report from yesteday, a couple of clarifications. I ride a Med Id now, and in hindsight a small would've been better. I couldn't find the frame specs on Id to compare it to the Epi; if anyone knows them please post. Very difficult to compare a med Id to a small Epi (see below), but I know how the Id rides and it's the basis for comparison nonetheless.

I borrowed a small Id with Rock Shox rear and Pace 41 front fork. Did not have time to do a comparison to Id during that ride but I did ride a trail that the Id is familiar with. One very noticeable benefit of Epi was in the climb. On steep sections on Id, I usually have to lower Fox TALAS RLC travel so front wheel doesn't get too light on me, and I have to shift weight forward quite a bit too. On Epi, I left full travel in on forks (didn't even deal with 3 way on shock) and felt I had a much more comfortable riding position.

On descent I was able to get back easily and--while the bike felt not as plush or stable as the Id--I quickly got used to it and never felt any tendency towards endo (which I feared given smaller frame/more forward position). I felt like I was being bounced around more than on Id but that could easily have been shock setup, which I didn't really mess with as it was not my bike (but the owner is about my size)

I put the bikes side by side and here's what I found: The Id is MUCH taller overall; higher BB, and seat/handlebars higher by almost 2". Looked like more "rake" to the Epi but Id had a longer wheelbase. And the Epi frame looked positively silly-small in comparison--my wife's Juliana looked bigger! Very different bikes. Definitely noticed the smaller "cockpit" in Epi vs. Id.

My guess is that going to the Epi will allow me to fix having a frame that was too big in the first place (med Id), since I think the Id rides bigger for any given size and a small would've been the best choice. But that shouldn't be a deciding factor for which new bike I choose.

In looking at choice on Epi, I'm still on the fence, esp when I notice how much I liked climb position on the small I rode yesterday. Biggest concern is being too cramped in small, but I really couldn't tell if that would be an issue after just one ride on Epi vs. 2500 miles on Id. I suppose one option would be to adjust any discrepancies with stem length and handlebars, assuming the smaller frame is slightly too small. Probably easier to fix a slightly too small frame than a slightly too big one...

So the question still stands: med or small?
 

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why not a truth. for your size, weight (5'7 165lbs) and riding style it woul be a great fit. I had a medium truth and moved to a medium epi. the truth was faster in everything... why the move? i'm 5'10 230lbs, the extra travel made a huge difference, also i'm on the aggressive side of xc, always looking for downhills to work on technique. regardless I miss the trush on fast single tracks though trees....
 

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davetr said:
Thanks for all of the input, folks; your comments very helpful.

Before I do a ride report from yesteday, a couple of clarifications. I ride a Med Id now, and in hindsight a small would've been better. I couldn't find the frame specs on Id to compare it to the Epi; if anyone knows them please post. Very difficult to compare a med Id to a small Epi (see below), but I know how the Id rides and it's the basis for comparison nonetheless.

I borrowed a small Id with Rock Shox rear and Pace 41 front fork. Did not have time to do a comparison to Id during that ride but I did ride a trail that the Id is familiar with. One very noticeable benefit of Epi was in the climb. On steep sections on Id, I usually have to lower Fox TALAS RLC travel so front wheel doesn't get too light on me, and I have to shift weight forward quite a bit too. On Epi, I left full travel in on forks (didn't even deal with 3 way on shock) and felt I had a much more comfortable riding position.

On descent I was able to get back easily and--while the bike felt not as plush or stable as the Id--I quickly got used to it and never felt any tendency towards endo (which I feared given smaller frame/more forward position). I felt like I was being bounced around more than on Id but that could easily have been shock setup, which I didn't really mess with as it was not my bike (but the owner is about my size)

I put the bikes side by side and here's what I found: The Id is MUCH taller overall; higher BB, and seat/handlebars higher by almost 2". Looked like more "rake" to the Epi but Id had a longer wheelbase. And the Epi frame looked positively silly-small in comparison--my wife's Juliana looked bigger! Very different bikes. Definitely noticed the smaller "cockpit" in Epi vs. Id.

My guess is that going to the Epi will allow me to fix having a frame that was too big in the first place (med Id), since I think the Id rides bigger for any given size and a small would've been the best choice. But that shouldn't be a deciding factor for which new bike I choose.

In looking at choice on Epi, I'm still on the fence, esp when I notice how much I liked climb position on the small I rode yesterday. Biggest concern is being too cramped in small, but I really couldn't tell if that would be an issue after just one ride on Epi vs. 2500 miles on Id. I suppose one option would be to adjust any discrepancies with stem length and handlebars, assuming the smaller frame is slightly too small. Probably easier to fix a slightly too small frame than a slightly too big one...

So the question still stands: med or small?
I understand your problem...I prurchased a med. Epi and rode it for weeks before I realized that it was simply too small for me. Coming form a hard tail, i just didn't understand that you need more room in the cockpit of a full suspension so you have room to pump & load the suspension. Anyhow, on paper, i was right between a med and large (i'm 6 ft.), but in reality I really needed the larger frame. Soooo, I ended up buying the large.

It's a gamble dude, while the med Epi still rode for me pretty nicely (though ultimately too cramped), the worst part was the silly LONG seat post it had exposed - As crazy as It sounds, it actually made me self-conscoius.

By the way, if I were to buy a new bike today, I'd still get an Epi. - It's been great.
 

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painp-

curious - you still running rs revelation. I am and still having some issues with it not returning to 130 when full open. i have (as well as LBS) played with pos/neg pressure and "problems persits. you having any similar issues? may be time to send back to RS?
 

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Down boy down said:
painp-

curious - you still running rs revelation. I am and still having some issues with it not returning to 130 when full open. i have (as well as LBS) played with pos/neg pressure and "problems persits. you having any similar issues? may be time to send back to RS?
are you running a u-turn model?

sounds like there have been some weird issues going on with some of THOSE...I have the dual air, and yes I'm still running it. Just had to have it rebuilt last week though, i was getting "uneven" compression. Apparently one of the o-ring seals related to the cartridge had folded over. So, it's all good again.

I'm getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on a 454 Pike u-turn air. I think 135ish would be interesting geometry to try with the Epi, plus i think the revelation tends to flex a bit, i can't wait for the 20mm maxel.

Just have your fork rebuilt by the LBS that you can trust to work on RS, it may cost you 50-100 bucks, but at least you won't have to send it back to RS and be without your fork for 2-3 weeks...they may be able to find your issue...BUT, if you are talking about just a couple of mm short of 130, than you most likely have no problem...at least not a problem that RS will fix, b/c on their site it states "Actual fork travel may vary +/- 3 mm"...so, good luck!!!!
 

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PAINpusher said:
are you running a u-turn model?

sounds like there have been some weird issues going on with some of THOSE...I have the dual air, and yes I'm still running it. Just had to have it rebuilt last week though, i was getting "uneven" compression. Apparently one of the o-ring seals related to the cartridge had folded over. So, it's all good again.

I'm getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on a 454 Pike u-turn air. I think 135ish would be intereting geometry to try with the Epi, plus i think the revelation tends to flex a bit, i can't wait for the 20mm maxel.

Just have your fork rebuilt by the LBS that you can trust to work on RS, it may cost you 50-100 bucks, but at least you won't have to send it back to RS and be without your fork for 2-3 weeks...they may be able to find your issue...BUT, if you are talking about just a couple of mm short of 130, than you most likely have no problem...at least not a problem that RS will fix, b/c on their site it states "Actual fork travel may vary +/- 3 mm"...so, good luck!!!!
yep, mine is u-turn. travel issue was a bit deeper the +/- 3mm at start (i bet closer to -10) but have been able to "fine tune" to ~-5 (yes i am a master mech :p ). anyway, LBS built up bike so think they will give me loaner fork if goes back to RS but may not even bother at this poiint although may be good way to get repaired and test new fork). was just wondering if youe exoperainced same and if quick fix- thanks for response
 
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