[serval]

My 1996 Klein is a 21 speed with aged, worn, broken components. I need to replace the shifters, the chainrings (current one is rivited), and the front and rear derailluers (rear cassette is okay actually). So basically everything but the rear cassette needs replacement.

I think it would be easiest to stay with a 21 speed setup rather than convert to a 24/27 because additional parts would need to be replaced otherwise (new hub, plus???).

BUT I'm having a hard time finding reasonable prices on 21-speed components on-line. I'm fortunate enough to have some great LBS's but they mostly have used components for my setup, and the price is not too different from new components on-line (sometimes it's more used).

Basically, does anyone know where I can find on-line, at a decent price, the following for a 21-speed setup:
(1) Shifters (pair)
(2) Front chainrings
(3) Front derailluer
(4) Rear derailluer

Thanks!

 

[Homebrew]

For the most part, you can use 8 speed stuff since the spacing is the same. The only thing that is 7 speed specific is the cassette. You can use 8 speed shifters, derailleurs, chains, and chainrings all for 7 speed. All you have to do is setup the rear derailleur stops at the 7th cog so the shifters only go through 7 clicks.

But check eBay.

 

[serval]

For the most part, you can use 8 speed stuff since the spacing is the same. The only thing that is 7 speed specific is the cassette. You can use 8 speed shifters, derailleurs, chains, and chainrings all for 7 speed. All you have to do is setup the rear derailleur stops at the 7th cog so the shifters only go through 7 clicks.

But check eBay.

Great! Thanks. I've had my eye on the Shimano LX M570 rear derailluer for $29 at JensonUSA.com. You couldn't tell me where on their site there are other 8 speed shifters and chainrings could you?

 

[Call_me_Clyde]

Jones Bikes

Jones Bikes does a lot of business on ebay (jonesbikes) and there is a link to their web site from there. They have a store in CA, so if what you need isn't available via ebay, call them. They seem to conntantly get in shipments of new old stock items.

Best wishes.

Bob

 

[JmZ]

Wait...Wait... Wait...

That's partially true, and parially false.

The rear hubs can be a different spacing. 7 speed were both 130mm and 135mm in width. If the 7 speed is the shorter one, a 8 speed cassette will not work.

The rear mechs will work fine.

SRAM has some cheap 7 speed shifters too. Check www.nashbar to see if they have any left.

Good luck,

JmZ

For the most part, you can use 8 speed stuff since the spacing is the same. The only thing that is 7 speed specific is the cassette. You can use 8 speed shifters, derailleurs, chains, and chainrings all for 7 speed. All you have to do is setup the rear derailleur stops at the 7th cog so the shifters only go through 7 clicks.

But check eBay.

 

[Zanetti]

That's partially true, and parially false.

The rear hubs can be a different spacing. 7 speed were both 130mm and 135mm in width. If the 7 speed is the shorter one, a 8 speed cassette will not work.

130 and 135 refers to the distance between the outsides of the axle locknuts, not the length of the cassette body. Freehubs designed for seven speeds will not accept eight speed cassettes no matter what the axle spacing.

Serval, check out sheldonbrown.com about 7/8/9 speed compatability. I'd think your best bet, since you're buying front and rear derailleurs, shifters and cassette, would be to go nine speed. Yeah, the cassette will have to be modified by removing a few cogs, but it will make sourcing all the parts much easier. Deore and Deore LX nine speed stuff can be found nearly anywhere at a reasonable price.

 

[GearHead]

I need to replace the chainrings (current one is rivited)

If the chainrings are riveted that would indicate that it is a cheap crank in which the chainrings CANNOT be replaced on. You will need a whole new crank and most likely a bottom bracket.

(rear cassette is okay actually). So basically everything but the rear cassette needs replacement.

If the crankset is replaced then the old chain will not work on the new crank, then you will have to replace the chain and the new chain will not work on the old cassette. Casettes can look okay but can actually be quite worn. I would count on needing a new chain and new cassette otherwise you will have shifting problems, chainsuck, and chain skipping.

I think it would be easiest to stay with a 21 speed setup rather than convert to a 24/27 because additional parts would need to be replaced otherwise (new hub, plus???).

You won't need a new hub to run 9 speed. I have a 9 speed cassette on a 7 speed hub just by using 8 out of 9 of the cogs and adjusting the rear derailleur limit screws.

 

[GearHead]

Yeah, the cassette will have to be modified by removing a few cogs, but it will make sourcing all the parts much easier.

You actually only need to remove one cog. If you buy an LX or XT cassette you just remove the 11 tooth cog and use a 12 tooth lockring instead of the normal 11 tooth lockring.

 

[serval]

So please correct me where I go wrong, but I'm trying to summarize this:
I should convert from a 7 speed to an 8 speed setup.
(1) To do this I should buy a 9 speed cassette and remove the smallest gear. (how do I do this and still have the cassette work correctly?)
(2) I will need to have a new chain (will www.supergo.com/profile.cfm%3FLPROD_ID%3D13220+%09SRAM+PC58&hl=en&client=firefox-a]this one work[/URL]? I just got it to my currently worn out chain, supposed to work with 7 or 8 speed, presumably not the newer setup though, right?
(3) I will need new shifters (8 speed?) and a new rear derailluer (a 9 speed which I will need to adjust the lower limit of so that it will not shift over the smallest gear)?
(4) I will need a new crankset/chainring and front derailluer. These will also need to be 9-speed compatible?

If the above is correct, please help me find the specific parts to buy.
(a) front and rear 9-speed compatible derailluers
(b) rear 9-speed cassette (which will need to have the smallest gear removed)
(c) rear 9 speed derailluer (adjusted to exclude the smallest gear)
(d) new 8-speed compatible shifters.
(e) new 9 speed chain

I'm looking for stuff in the LX series level, though I'm out of the loop on SRAM components which I hear are excellent. I have nothing again grip shifters.

thanks for all your help and excellent advise!

edit: Would these components work?:
Shimano LX M572 Crankset-----------SH-FCM572K----------175--------------------$69.95
Nashbar 9 Speed Cassette------------NS-CST9-----------------11X28----------------$19.99
SRAM X.7 Eight Spd Rear Shifter---YS-SRGX78-------------------------------------$9.95
SRAM X.7 Micro Front Shifter---------YS-SFGX7M------------------------------------$12.99
SRAM 3.0 MTB Front Derailleur-----SR-FD30-----------------M----------------------$12.95
SRAM 4.0 ESP Rear Derailleur------SR-RD40------------------------------------------$27.95
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Total $153.78 + shipping

Add a 9 spd chain and that's all I need?

 

[GearHead]

So please correct me where I go wrong, but I'm trying to summarize this:
I should convert from a 7 speed to an 8 speed setup.
(1) To do this I should buy a 9 speed cassette and remove the smallest gear. (how do I do this and still have the cassette work correctly?)

This depends on the cog range you wnat when you are done. If you want a 11-28 gear cluster, buy a 11-34, unscrew the three screws in the back of the casette and remove the 34 tooth cog and spacer. If you want a 12-34 or 12-32 cluster, then buy a LX style cassette. Both the 11 and 12 tooth cogs already have the indents on then for a lockring to lock onto. Then just remove the 11 tooth cog (which also includes the built-in spacer) and use a 12 tooth lockring, which you will have to buy separately.

(2) I will need to have a new chain (will one work? I just got it to my currently worn out chain, supposed to work with 7 or 8 speed, presumably not the newer setup though, right?

You are correct that you will now need a 9 speed cahin even though you only have a 8 speed drivetrain. The spacing on the cassette will still be 9 speed spacing.

(3) I will need new shifters (8 speed?) and a new rear derailluer (a 9 speed which I will need to adjust the lower limit of so that it will not shift over the smallest gear)?

You will actually need 9 speed shifters as you will be indexing to 9 speed spacing on a 9 speed cassette.
Yes you will need to adjust the limit screw on a 9 speed derailleur so that it will not shift over the smallest gear

(4) I will need a new crankset/chainring and front derailluer. These will also need to be 9-speed compatible?)

Correct

If the above is correct, please help me find the specific parts to buy.
(a) front and rear 9-speed compatible derailluers
(b) rear 9-speed cassette (which will need to have the smallest gear removed)
(c) rear 9 speed derailluer (adjusted to exclude the smallest gear)
(d) new 8-speed compatible shifters.
(e) new 9 speed chain

I'm looking for stuff in the LX series level, though I'm out of the loop on SRAM components which I hear are excellent. I have nothing again grip shifters.

thanks for all your help and excellent advise!

edit: Would these components work?:
Shimano LX M572 Crankset-----------SH-FCM572K----------175--------------------$69.95
Nashbar 9 Speed Cassette------------NS-CST9-----------------11X28----------------$19.99
SRAM X.7 Eight Spd Rear Shifter---YS-SRGX78-------------------------------------$9.95
SRAM X.7 Micro Front Shifter---------YS-SFGX7M------------------------------------$12.99
SRAM 3.0 MTB Front Derailleur-----SR-FD30-----------------M----------------------$12.95
SRAM 4.0 ESP Rear Derailleur------SR-RD40------------------------------------------$27.95
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Total $153.78 + shipping

Add a 9 spd chain and that's all I need?

As a minimum you will need to include an Octalink BB to hold the crank on, a Shimano BB-ES51. How old is your Klein? Does it have a threaded BB shell on the frame, or dose it use the pressed in bearing style?

I will take a look at rest of the parts later today, hope this helps.

On a side note, what level of 7 speed components does your bike have. Does it actually have one of the old Shimano cranks where the chainrings are riveted onto a spider which is then held onto the crank with a lockring? If so, you can replace the chainrings on those but they are getting hasrder to get and more expensive.

What

 

[serval]

Oy, this is getting expensive quickly ... approaching the $175 mark

So please correct me where I go wrong, but I'm trying to summarize this:
I should convert from a 7 speed to an 8 speed setup.
(1) To do this I should buy a 9 speed cassette and remove the smallest gear. (how do I do this and still have the cassette work correctly?)

This depends on the cog range you wnat when you are done. If you want a 11-28 gear cluster, buy a 11-34, unscrew the three screws in the back of the casette and remove the 34 tooth cog and spacer. If you want a 12-34 or 12-32 cluster, then buy a LX style cassette. Both the 11 and 12 tooth cogs already have the indents on then for a lockring to lock onto. Then just remove the 11 tooth cog (which also includes the built-in spacer) and use a 12 tooth lockring, which you will have to buy separately.

-->Okay - I'm using the bike mostly for commuting with a relatively gentle uphill so I'm guessing I need more small rear gears. But the difference in range between 11-28 seems substantially smaller than the range between 12-34 so I'm leaning toward the larger range (nice to have the easy stuff sometimes, though I suppose I could change all this around later if I were truely motivated). Any specific hardware recommendations here?

(2) I will need to have a new chain

You are correct that you will now need a 9 speed cahin even though you only have a 8 speed drivetrain. The spacing on the cassette will still be 9 speed spacing.

Check, new 9spd chain.

(3) I will need new shifters (8 speed?) and a new rear derailluer (a 9 speed which I will need to adjust the lower limit of so that it will not shift over the smallest gear)?

You will actually need 9 speed shifters as you will be indexing to 9 speed spacing on a 9 speed cassette.
Yes you will need to adjust the limit screw on a 9 speed derailleur so that it will not shift over the smallest gear.

Does this adjustment also prevent the shifter from utilizing its extra 9th "click" or will I have a ghost shifting position?
Would this be an apropriate shifter? SRAM 7.0 ESP Rear Shifter - 9 Speed

(4) I will need a new crankset/chainring and front derailluer. These will also need to be 9-speed compatible?)

Correct

Check, new front derailluer ... will this one work? SRAM 3.0 MTB Front Derailleur
Check, new crankset/chainrings ... open to recommendations here because it looks like this will be the most expensive part. (current set in mind: Shimano LX M572 Crankset )

If the above is correct, please help me find the specific parts to buy.
(a) front and rear 9-speed compatible derailluers
(b) rear 9-speed cassette (which will need to have the smallest gear removed)
(c) rear 9 speed derailluer (adjusted to exclude the smallest gear)
(d) new 8-speed compatible shifters.
(e) new 9 speed chain
(f) bottom bracket
(g) 9-speed chain

As a minimum you will need to include an Octalink BB to hold the crank on, a Shimano BB-ES51.

Check, nashbar has them on sale for $20 ... but there are three sizes ... which is for me? 73x121, 73x126, 68x118? Shimano ES51 Bottom Bracket

How old is your Klein? Does it have a threaded BB shell on the frame, or does it use the pressed in bearing style?

It's from 1996 I believe. I do not know which BB type it uses, how can I tell?

On a side note, what level of 7 speed components does your bike have? Does it actually have one of the old Shimano cranks where the chainrings are riveted onto a spider which is then held onto the crank with a lockring? If so, you can replace the chainrings on those but they are getting hasrder to get and more expensive.

The components are all Shimano A (which I think stands for Acera but could be Alivio or Altus). I was told, based on a picture I posted, that they are riveted, but really I'm not sure. Here's a picture (ignore the arrows):

here's a pick of the bike itself:

Thanks again for the incredible assistance and expert advice!
Abe

 

[GearHead]

Okay - I'm using the bike mostly for commuting with a relatively gentle uphill so I'm guessing I need more small rear gears. But the difference in range between 11-28 seems substantially smaller than the range between 12-34 so I'm leaning toward the larger range (nice to have the easy stuff sometimes, though I suppose I could change all this around later if I were truely motivated). Any specific hardware recommendations here?

That is easy, for commuting you definitely want the 11-28. Also, you can make an 11-28 out of most cassettes (ones with a spider are exception, such as XT) by removing the three screws holding the cog cluster together and removing the largest cog and spacer. You need very specific cassettes to make a 12-34 as it needs to have the correct 12 tooth cog and you need to buy a 12 tooth lockring.

Does this adjustment also prevent the shifter from utilizing its extra 9th "click" or will I have a ghost shifting position?

With 9 speed shifters you would only have 8 clicks even at full range (8 clicks to move between 9 cogs). And yes, it will prevent you from even knowing that there is 8 clicks. You will only use 7 clicks, the other click will become completely locked out. This will not result in any ghost shifting position.

Check, new crankset/chainrings ... open to recommendations here because it looks like this will be the most expensive part. (current set in mind: Shimano LX M572 Crankset )

My recommendation here is that any Shimano crank Deore level or higher with hollowtech arms is going to be okay. Even the older square taper cranks work fine. The higher level cranks just become lighter at the expense or durability with the use of aluminum chainrings instead of steel. All Shimano cranks Deore level and higher will shift nearly the same.

Check, nashbar has them on sale for $20 ... but there are three sizes ... which is for me? 73x121, 73x126, 68x118? Shimano ES51 Bottom Bracket

The first number refers to the BB shell width of your frame. You need to determine the BB shell width on the frame by measuring it. It will be either the 68 or 73 measurement, I believe your bike has a 68 mm wide BB shell. The second number corresponds to the BB axle length. For a 572 crank on a hardtail you would want the 121 length to give you a 47.5 mm chainline. You CANNOT use the 118 mm long axle with that crank as it does not have the correct BB axle offset for that crank. You can use the 126 mm axle if you need the extra frame clearance. You most likely will need a 68x121 BB, not offered at Nashbar.

It's from 1996 I believe. I do not know which BB type it uses, how can I tell?

If it has a threaded BB shell, it will have a BB cup with splines on it and the bearings won't be visible. If it has the "Klein BB" it will use a separate BB axle and bearings. This is put in by gluing the axle and bearings into the BB shell as there are no threads. This requires special tools. You cannot put a modern crank on this frame if you have this type of BB shell. Please provide a picture of the BB coming out of the BB shell on the non-drive side and I can confirm for you the type.

I was told, based on a picture I posted, that they are riveted, but really I'm not sure. Here's a picture (ignore the arrows):

Actually, your large chainring is spot welded to the middle chainring which is in turn spot wleded onto the small chainring and then bolted onto the aluminum spider. You can change your chainrings but they all have to be changed at the same time. There are 5 black chainring bolts on the polished aluminum spider which allow you to do so.

here's a pick of the bike itself:

Thanks again for the incredible assistance and expert advice!
Abe[/QUOTE]

 

[GearHead]

Would this be an apropriate shifter? SRAM 7.0 ESP Rear Shifter - 9 Speed

Personally I hate SRAM grip shifters, tried them for a couple of years, but that is just my preference. Yes they should work with this setup. It is to be noted that those shifters have to be used with a SRAM rear derailleur only due to the ESP 1:1 cable pull.

Check, new front derailluer ... will this one work? SRAM 3.0 MTB Front Derailleur

This derailleur will not work as it is designed for the 42/32/22T 7 or 8 Speed and 48/38/28T 7 or 8 Speed cranks. It is deisgned for chainrings which have a OD that corresponds to either a 42 or 48 tooth chairing and for a wider 7/8 speed chain.

When you select a front derailleur you need to make sure that is has the same clamp diameter as the seat tube of your bike, it is a top pull design to match your cable routing, it is designed to be used with a 9 speed crank and 9 speed chain, designed for a 44 tooth chainring, and that the derailleur clamp position will not hit any of the bolts on the seat tube.

The best value/performance you can get is from a Deore crank, BB, shifters, and derailleurs. It will be very reliable, work great together, and last a long time.