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When is a trail 'too much'?

13K views 192 replies 54 participants last post by  d365 
#1 ·
My son and I were exploring some trails that a few local kids have built in the forest owned by our town's rec department off the playground/sports fields. They've been working on them for several years I think and they are very good riders and so they are building the trails they want to ride. We turned down a section of the trail today and found their latest creation in progress, a gap/drop that I don't think would be out of place on a double black downhill trail.

I'm not sure whether the town's rec manager knows the scale of what they're building but my gut reaction was that it's too much for where it is and it is a serious accident waiting to happen. Do you think I should have a word with the Rec Manager?

My son is 4'7", the drop-off is up above him to the right, and you can see the landing on the left. My fear is someone has no idea it's there, can't stop in time, front wheel goes off and they OTB and drop spine first onto the stack of logs building up the landing:

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#3 ·
Knowing the manager I don't think she'd leave it there, even with signage, because suddenly issues of liability come into play, but without it's a real hazard.

None of the trails are posted, it's basically these kids' private trail network on town land and I think it's great, I just worry they're getting too big for something that anybody could 'stumble' on.
 
#8 ·
People dont blindly ride off a drops, that's not realistic, drops like that are obvious and everyone's instinct when approaching one is to STOP and look at it. How many people accidentally fly off cliffs because they thought there was a hill on the other side? Humans would be extinct if we werent hard wired to freeze when we approach something where we cant see the bottom. The whole reason drops like that are thrilling is because its about overcoming that fear and forcing yourself to go off it.

Kids are also not going to just jump it when they dont have the skill because things like that are too scary. There are 6ft drops all over the world and kids have survived.

Stuff like this simply isnt as dangerous as you think, its the unassuming poorly built stuff that gets people hurt.
 
#9 ·
Agreed 100%. Something else that gets forgotten is that mountain bikers have a responsibility to ride in control. If you blindly sail off that because you you couldn't stop then you were riding too fast, pure and simple. Skiing has had this figured out for a while now. Us? Not so much.
 
#15 ·
Talk to the individuals building the trail. Don't drink the Karen cool-aid and act like talking to a manager is going to help make the world safer. They were building the trails before they showed you, don't ruin their hard work because you want to create a hypothetical bad scenario in your mind about what could be. Just suggest that they label it and put a b-line around it.
 
#17 ·
My whole point is that I don't want to rock the boat and take away a good thing, but at the same time I imagine when they asked for permission to put some trails in no one was considering features like this. As I said we met a kid who showed us some of these trails and I've never seen him again, so I have no way of "speaking to them". I could go and put some signs up but that might lead to closure anyway if they draw the wrong attention.
 
#18 ·
You saw the drop and you stopped so why wouldnt other people? Ive never accidentally went over a drop or heard of anyone that has. I live near a drop that is almost a clone of that and there is a perspective effect you get between the lip and the background that screams "cliff" as you approach and not "trail", I dont see how its possible anyone can mistake something that high as anything but a drop.

I think adding a small drop sign on the run-in is a good peace of mind but even without it I HIGHLY doubt anyone accidentally goes over it. You have to trust that people arent brain dead and will just ride off a blind drop, its a one in a million kind of accident.
 
#108 ·
If these are non sanctioned trails as is, getting the land manager involved is just going to have all of them destroyed. Putting up one sign on a stake about 20ft before the drop warns people of it and isn't drawing too much attention to it.

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This. I think this was lost in the dialogue above. A sign before the feature that you wouldn't see unless out on the trail to start is the way to go, coupled with a b-line.
 
#25 ·
You seem to want the trail torn down and you want us to justify you ratting out the builders.

Pretty simple solution is to ask the builders to put up a sign and build a B line if you are really concerned about it. There is zero reason to turn the kids in and have the trail torn down. It looks to be a very well built gap that could be cleared with minimal speed from the picture you posted.
 
#29 ·
Kids are making their own trails and not ruining other trails that's a good thing.

Let the sleaping dogs lie and leave the kids to there tracks. As others have said there are batshit crazy tracks all around the world were kids aren't being injured by accidental riding of the tracks.

Just because you personally won't ride the track doesn't mean it's not easy to others. There are many levels of rider out there in the mtb world.

My suggestion for the track builders. Out a squirrel catcher at the start of the track.
 
#30 ·
America, where everything has to be lawyer safe. Sigh.

I would say signage and ride arounds are perfect. Removing the features is a terrible thing to do, no matter how scary they may seem.
 
#31 ·
So because you can't ride something, no one else should be able to?
I just reamed a Karen a new one over the exact same scenario a couple of days ago.
She'd come across a trail that was marked as black and she thought it unrideable and wanted it removed.
My response was along the following.

"Just because you're not at the level of riding that others are does not entitle you to undo other riders effort. You are a part of a growing problem that has ruined many great trails. It starts with one turn being shortened and manicured, and before you know it you end up with sanitized flow trails. If that's the surface you want to ride there is something called gravel bikes. Leave the dirt to us real mountainbikers."

To you specifically. If it bothers you. Hang a sign. Or even better, cut a B-Line yourself.
If you tell the land manager the trails will be torn down and more than likely some form of charges will be brought.
So you really need to do some thinking here.
It sounds like you really want to **** those kids over. And thats all on you.
 
#40 ·
I've heard on the grapevine that the rec manager is already sniffing around, so this might have been an entirely moot post.

I was a little surprised by some of the responses here, especially the "poor kid" comment. I actively encourage my children to ride, take them to DH parks, provide them with proper equipment etc... The "poor kid" in question will happily 'send it' down a black diamond, and clocked over 60mph on a pair of skis, and rips it through the moguls on the freestyle team, and he thought this particular feature was completely out of place. It was also his idea to stand in the feature to give a sense of scale for the photo.

I never said it shouldn't be there because I can't personally ride it and there was some anecdote about a woman who didn't think a trail should exist. If this was clearly signed as a black trail then I wouldn't have even asked the question.

I genuinely asked the question with the best of intentions because I don't want all their hard work to be torn out but I worry they have maybe gone 'too far' for where they are building. I was looking for advice because I'm new to this and I was looking for others experiences dealing with land owners/local authorities etc... in the creation and maintenance of trails.
 
#42 ·
Read what I've posted before your make snarky comments! I'm not worried about the kids building the trails getting hurt, I'm worried about other people who go for a poke around on the trails built on the town's recreation area, who would never even consider that there might be features like this, riding down a seemingly benign little XC trail that suddenly disappears off a cliff.

We surely have a duty of care to the wider community, not just the small population of mountain bikers?
 
#47 ·
Not sure why you're assuming they're "pirate" trails, the kid I spoke to last year said they had received permission at some point in the past. Not being privy to the conversations/agreements I would have no idea what permission was granted our how it was documented and whether the are still building what was agreed on? "Can we scratch out a few trails to ride around on?" is very different to "can we build a mini-DH course with gaps/jumps/drops etc..?"

Again this is why I don't want to rock the boat, a huge amount of effort has gone into these trails and I'd hate to see them shut down, but I also don't want for someone to have a nasty accident which would automatically shut them down.
 
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