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Wheels - Havoc, Charger Pro or Hope/Flow

3870 Views 15 Replies 10 Participants Last post by hartwerks, Nov 3, 2011

jbf

Discussion Starter · Feb 11, 2011

I am getting ready to pull the trigger on new wheels for my AM hardtail. I weigh 150-160 lbs and the frame is a Santa Cruz Chameleon with a Marzocchi Z1 with a 20mm thru axle. I have found silly good online deals for the Hope Pro2 factory built wheels with Stan's Flow rims, Easton Havocs and the Sun Ringle Charger Pros. All these wheels appeal to me due to their ability to change axles front and rear to adapt to different bikes over time. I am leaning toward the Hope/Flow wheels due to their conventional design and the reputation of the Hope hubs.

Any others I should be considering? What would you get and why?

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twowheelsdown2002

· #2 · Feb 12, 2011

I put 2 pairs of the Sun Ringle Charger Pro's on me and my girlfriends new Endorphins. Here are some of the good points. (I got one set for $436, and the other for $467)

1. Same "Bead Socket Technology" (BST) as a Stan's Flow rim. Meaning you can put a regular tire on with some sealant, wipe the bead with some soapy water, and inflate to 35psi, and snap/crackle/pop you are sealed up and tubeless. Total breeze to set up tubeless.

2. Rim has a 21mm tall profile vs 15mm on a Flow.(from spoke holes to rim edge) I believe this deeper profile will be a bit stiffer and stronger than a Flow.

3. Charger Pro's have straight pull spokes, and eyelets. Meaning they run higher tension than a Flow, and less likely to crack at a spoke hole. A flow can crack if tensioned too high because they have no eyelets. The higher tension should make the Charger Pro's stiffer and the lack of spoke bends prevents spoke breakage.

4. The Charger Pro's come with everything you need to set them up. Even sealant. Mine came with Stan's yellow tape installed, with Stan's tubeless valves, and 2 bottles of sealant.

5. The Charger Pro's come with every fork adapter. 9mm Quick Release. 15mm through axle. And 20mm through axle. As well as both front and rear QR skewers.

6. The Charger Pro's weigh 1700 grams, and yet feel very stiff. They have a 28mm width and work well with 2.35 and 2.5 tires. I only have 4 rides on them, so I can't speak to long term durability, but so far they are still tight as a drum with no loose spokes, and I am very pleased with them.

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jbf

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 12, 2011

twowheelsdown2002 said:
I put 2 pairs of the Sun Ringle Charger Pro's on me and my girlfriends new Endorphins. Here are some of the good points. (I got one set for $436, and the other for $467).

Thanks for your thoughts. My concerns on the Chargers is the rear hub. What are your impressions on the hubs quality and and how quick is the engagement? Sun's reputation for hubs in the past was not great (and the Havoc have some concerns as well based on the reviews).

twowheelsdown2002

· #4 · Feb 12, 2011

jbf said:
Thanks for your thoughts. My concerns on the Chargers is the rear hub. What are your impressions on the hubs quality and and how quick is the engagement? Sun's reputation for hubs in the past was not great (and the Havoc have some concerns as well based on the reviews).

Hub quality seems quite good. They do not have as many points of engagement as something like a Hadley hub, but the engagement is quick and positive. Also, the bearings spin really smooth, and there is zero side to side play.

Here are some reviews that helped me decide on these.

http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/sun-ringle-charger-pro-review/

http://www.singletracks.com/blog/mtb-gear/sun-ringle-charger-pro-mtb-wheelset-review/

Drth Vadr

· #5 · Feb 13, 2011

I particularly like Sun Ringle hubs (Jumping&Dirty Flea line)Bike Radar gives them a pretty good review also.I don't believe the new chargers have Sun hubs, but the 08-09 do (jumping front&dirty rear). I think there some off brand like mavic relabeled hubs,but don't quote me.The more expensive Black Flag's are lace with Sun hubs.
I have read plenty of bad things about Easton hubs, but no personal experience. If you can get Flows/Hopes for cheap do it. They will have better resale if need be. I have a set on my 29er and love them, but I also have a set of Single Track/Jumping Fleas that was for my AM 26 and I love equally as well.

thrasher_s

· #6 · Feb 13, 2011

twowheelsdown2002 said:
1. Same "Bead Socket Technology" (BST) as a Stan's Flow rim. Meaning you can put a regular tire on with some sealant, wipe the bead with some soapy water, and inflate to 35psi, and snap/crackle/pop you are sealed up and tubeless. Total breeze to set up tubeless.
2

Absolutely right. The Bead Socket Technology is a piece of cake to set up. I didn't even use the soapy water, inflated first try on both wheels WITHOUT UST tires with just a floor pump. I recommend a CO2 pump or compressor ONLY because it is less tiring. I haven't tried it on the Sun rims, just Notubes Flow's, but it is the same thing.

I went with Hope Hoops (Hope Pro2's and and Flows) from Wiggle.com in the UK. Free shipping to West Texas from England in 4 days! During the nationwide snowstorm we just had! I chose these because of the reputation of the Hope hubs and because I wanted the J-bend spokes. The benefits of straight pull spokes are undeniable, but they are harder to get repaired on the road IF there is an issue. A buddy of mine had to rent a bike for 2 days when we were in Moab, UT when he broke a straight pull Industry 9 spoke. In defense of the I9's (which are exceptional) he did totally flub that drop.

NOTE: If you buy from Wiggle.com (and maybe chainreactioncycles.com, not sure) they come with 2 extra spokes/nipples but DO NOT come with Stans yellow tape or the Olympic valve stems, which I recommend. It cost me an extra $12 per wheel to set up.

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b-kul

· #7 · Feb 13, 2011

if the cost is realitivy the same get the chargers but if not hope/flows cant be beat for the strength/weight/price.

b-kul

· #8 · Feb 13, 2011

thrasher_s said:
Absolutely right. The Bead Socket Technology is a piece of cake to set up. I didn't even use the soapy water, inflated first try on both wheels WITHOUT UST tires with just a floor pump. I recommend a CO2 pump or compressor ONLY because it is less tiring. I haven't tried it on the Sun rims, just Notubes Flow's, but it is the same thing.

I went with Hope Hoops (Hope Pro2's and and Flows) from Wiggle.com in the UK. Free shipping to West Texas from England in 4 days! During the nationwide snowstorm we just had! I chose these because of the reputation of the Hope hubs and because I wanted the J-bend spokes. The benefits of straight pull spokes are undeniable, but they are harder to get repaired on the road IF there is an issue. A buddy of mine had to rent a bike for 2 days when we were in Moab, UT when he broke a straight pull Industry 9 spoke. In defense of the I9's (which are exceptional) he did totally flub that drop.

NOTE: If you buy from Wiggle.com (and maybe chainreactioncycles.com, not sure) they come with 2 extra spokes/nipples but DO NOT come with Stans yellow tape or the Olympic valve stems, which I recommend. It cost me an extra $12 per wheel to set up.

well this pretty much seals the deal for me, hope/ flows will be my next purchase. out of curiousity what tires did you set up? im gonna be trying a panaracer rampage and conti tk.

pfox90

· #9 · Feb 14, 2011

I'll be setting up tubeless on my next bike because I can't order from Transition anymore

Back to expensive wheels.

Krv322

· #10 · Nov 2, 2011

Hello there

does anyone know what's the real number of engagement points the Sun-Ringle Charger Pro has...it has 3 pawls and 24t ratchet ring....got it online and description says its 72POE??? similar to Hadley and Cking???? i know hadleys has 4 pawls and 36T rachet ring and then we have the Kings with 72T ratchet ring but using the ringdrive system....Hope has 4pawls with 24T rachet rings yeilding 24POEs ---- so how do you really calculate for POEs? Does the charger has 24POEs or 72????

Any help would greatly appreciated....

bernietheoneandonly

· #11 · Nov 3, 2011 (Edited)

charger pro hub pawls engage at the same time yielding 24 engagments per revolution. I believe most hubs employ a design in which the pawls engage simultaneously. Now sure where you saw the 72POE for the Chargers? Link?

The term "points of engagment"is often used for two different meanings
1) the number of teeth under load while pedaling
2) the number of engagment idexes per revolution.

Not sure which is proper.

Krv322

· #12 · Nov 3, 2011

bernietheoneandonly -- sadly im not allowed to post links yet -- I guess I should say Hi more oftern hahhaha anyways bikebling.com had it advertised at "3 pawl alloy cassette body and 24 tooth ratchet ring, yielding 72 engagement points" -- Did i misread it?

how can I check? as you said its 24 Engagement per Rev --- so one complete cycle should and must equal to 24? making it 24poe

sorry for so maaaaanyyyy question--I have been trying to read about it but still searching for a definitive answer -- i also contacted Sun-Ringle themselves and the answer that i got was 72 --

do yo know how to calculate poes? i mean from pawls vs rachet T ring? Math wise I take that the reason why it is being said "72" is 3 Pawls engaging at any given time against 24T rachet Ring si simple 3 x 24 = 72?? <--- that does hold any water???

TheNihilist

· #13 · Nov 3, 2011

I've been using jumping flea for about a year when suddenly the rear hub stopped working. In the middle of nowhere, so had to push my bike home. it was a really nice and long walk home.
that said - me personally do not trust these hubs anymore

I have switched to hope pro 2 evo

bernietheoneandonly

· #14 · Nov 3, 2011

there is a thread titled "I think hubs confuse me" in the wheel and tires form. Check it out. I'm sure there are other threads out there with some detail as well. Good luck

Charger Pros have 24 clicks per rev.

Krv322

· #15 · Nov 3, 2011

Will definitely check the thread --- thank you

TheNihilist -- thanks also for the heads up. I will keep that in mind.

hartwerks

· #16 · Nov 3, 2011

TheNihilist said:
I've been using jumping flea for about a year when suddenly the rear hub stopped working. In the middle of nowhere, so had to push my bike home. it was a really nice and long walk home.
that said - me personally do not trust these hubs anymore

I agree. The shop where I work rented Norco Shores with the Sun Ringle Demon hubs, and I have seen many issues with the pawls wearing down to the point that they do not engage anymore. Although Hayes Group has been good about sending out replacements, I do not think that frequent failures are a good sign for the overall quality of the Sun Ringle hubs...

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