[krolik]

Semi-internal bearings on a LT2
Am I stupid or there's sth wrong. I see in July 08 edition of MBA:
'semi-internal headset bearings offset some of the fork height'
It's the second time I see this in MBA. They've mentioned it before, May or June 08
I own the bike and have King headset on it. They have the new Crankbrothers headset on it. Both std, threadless headsets with external bearing cups, right?
So WTF? Twice such info in MBA

 

[audi0phile]

RC is a writer, not an engineer, not a product manager.

 

[krolik]

RC is a writer, not an engineer, not a product manager.

Agreed.
Still after so many years of testing/riding he should know. And if you say sth like this twice, you mean it, you don't mean the cups are low or the stack height is low.
Strange. I don't blame anyone or anything - I'm just surprised and wondering if I missed sth on my bike.
I'm no engineer but I can tell the difference.

 

[Tricone]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didnt RC start as a bike designer/manager? Was it Mantis bikes or something like that that was his company?

 

[Jerk_Chicken]

This was the guy behind Mantis bikes and I'm wondering if he's deviating away from what he knew to how to sort of explain things to n00b's looking at the mag.

 

[krolik]

This was the guy behind Mantis bikes and I'm wondering if he's deviating away from what he knew to how to sort of explain things to n00b's looking at the mag.

I understand simple language. but saying LT2 has semi-internal headset bearings is just wrong. not missunderstood. just wrong.

 

[TNC]

I don't know...sounds like much-to-do-about-nothing. Not particularly trying to defend RC here, but isn't this just a semantics thing? I mean...what is a semi-internal headset? Unless the whole headset device is on the outside of the headtube, isn't a standard, old school headset semi-internal? Part of the headset is pressed into the headtube on an old school headset. Is that semi-internal? Has this term been used as an official designation for a headset design before? I guess I've only noticed integrated and zero stack headsets as being relatively new or different. What is the official engineering name for an old school headset other than the title "threadless"?

I'm not trying to start an argument over this, and maybe I'm just missing the importance of the statement. I guess the most important part of the statement is the part that suggests that it offsets the fork height. It either does this or not. I haven't seen a Crank Bros. headset. Does it have a lower profile? Did MBA's test bike actually have a different headset? Krolik, you have a BLT2. Do you have a pic of this headset that you could show us on your bike? I'm assuming you're going by the May 2008 issue of MBA. In that article, it sounds like they're reporting what SC is telling them, since that story is a pre-release report. It wouldn't be unusual for the pictured bike to have one headset and the data from SC for the ultimately released bike to have something different. Looking at the pics from MBA, Bike, and others I've seen, the headset appears somewhat conventional but perhaps a little lower profile than the FSA models that are in my bikes. Regardless, it seems like a small issue. With the modified downtube "bend" at the headtube, it looks like fork/crown and frame interference will be less of an issue than it was before. Also it crossed my mind that MBA might be referring to "fork height" in regards to the stanchion/crown interference issue and the new "bend" at the downtube rather than fork height as it relates to the axle-to-crown height. Still, I think this whole thing might getting overanalyzed by the both of us, krolik.

 

[krolik]

I don't know...sounds like much-to-do-about-nothing. Not particularly trying to defend RC here, but isn't this just a semantics thing? I mean...what is a semi-internal headset? Unless the whole headset device is on the outside of the headtube, isn't a standard, old school headset semi-internal? Part of the headset is pressed into the headtube on an old school headset. Is that semi-internal? Has this term been used as an official designation for a headset design before? I guess I've only noticed integrated and zero stack headsets as being relatively new or different. What is the official engineering name for an old school headset other than the title "threadless"?

I'm not trying to start an argument over this, and maybe I'm just missing the importance of the statement. I guess the most important part of the statement is the part that suggests that it offsets the fork height. It either does this or not. I haven't seen a Crank Bros. headset. Does it have a lower profile? Did MBA's test bike actually have a different headset? Krolik, you have a BLT2. Do you have a pic of this headset that you could show us on your bike? I'm assuming you're going by the May 2008 issue of MBA. In that article, it sounds like they're reporting what SC is telling them, since that story is a pre-release report. It wouldn't be unusual for the pictured bike to have one headset and the data from SC for the ultimately released bike to have something different. Looking at the pics from MBA, Bike, and others I've seen, the headset appears somewhat conventional but perhaps a little lower profile than the FSA models that are in my bikes. Regardless, it seems like a small issue. With the modified downtube "bend" at the headtube, it looks like fork/crown and frame interference will be less of an issue than it was before. Also it crossed my mind that MBA might be referring to "fork height" in regards to the stanchion/crown interference issue and the new "bend" at the downtube rather than fork height as it relates to the axle-to-crown height. Still, I think this whole thing might getting overanalyzed by the both of us, krolik.

Looking at the lenght of your post TNC, it sure is I was hoping you would say a word or two TNC and I'm nopt dissappointed !LOL!

Seriously though, I think it's missleading all these terms. I know semi-integrated and integrated (zero stack), but they need oversized headtubes to accomodate bearings inside the tube.
I bet we can argue that if the collar is inside the tube it is indeed integrated to some degree but c'mon! - bearings are not going to fit inside the 1 1/8" headtube, not if you use std steerer anyway.
I'm just teasing here, I know they just write what they receive from SC in that earlier release but all pics I've seen of any mules or pre-release bikes had std headtubes.
Different headsets always had different stack heights but I wouldn't call it semi-internal unless any part of the bearing is inside the tube.
End of it!
I just wanted to know if there's sth I don't know or if my bike is odd in some way or if I put wrong headset in it.
But I think I can sleep well
As can you TNC
Neo is doing such a job here it should be obligatory, BTW.

 

[brainbckt]

Jesus probably came to RC in a dream and told him to call 'em that.

 

[MtotheF]

hey now

I'm just teasing here, I know they just write what they receive from SC in that earlier release but all pics I've seen of any mules or pre-release bikes had std headtubes..

back that finger pointing right down a notch there, krol-walski... here at the SCB corporate brainwashing machine we make sure to be very precise about the nature of that brainwashing. as such, we have NEVER said a word about integrated or semi integrated headsets. and in this particular case, even went out of our way to mention to the folks down at hi-torque that we were using regular old headsets after they trotted this mis-info out the first time... heck, we even went so far as to use one of then fancy telephones to get our point across.

oh well. you can only beat a dead horse for so long before your arm gets tired.

 

[haden]

rc

i thought rc was jesus?

 

[Banshee Rider]

People read RC's page?

 

[krolik]

People read RC's page?

Lucky me - it was in the LT2 test and not in the RC's page

 

[krolik]

back that finger pointing right down a notch there, krol-walski... here at the SCB corporate brainwashing machine we make sure to be very precise about the nature of that brainwashing. as such, we have NEVER said a word about integrated or semi integrated headsets. and in this particular case, even went out of our way to mention to the folks down at hi-torque that we were using regular old headsets after they trotted this mis-info out the first time... heck, we even went so far as to use one of then fancy telephones to get our point across.

oh well. you can only beat a dead horse for so long before your arm gets tired.

oh, the insider at last!
Man am I happy that I didn't just put a std headset in the integrated-ready headtube! LOL
I was pretty darn sure that makers of my fancy bike use smoke signs not phones, but hey - you cannot be perfect there, can you?
Seriously though, I was pretty confused as that may mba release was there right when I was puting my bike together (just waiting for the frame to arrive) and I wasn't sure if there realy is sth going on.
Anyway, bike seems to work quite fine with a std mango king, even if rc doesn't allow it.
btw, don't you think 650b should be obligatory in the front of all sc bikes
I DO
krol-walski