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You stated that you wouldn't use inserts on your FS, so I was inquiring that you didn't think an insert was worth the increased traction for you personally on your FS.
Sorry. Misunderstood your question. I can run low enough tire pressure on the back of my FS bike [without an insert] that I rarely if ever need more traction. That includes Coastal BC winter riding and these days I am riding a hardtail through the winter so my FS bike is getting used for the prime riding season where traction is pretty good.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
This.

Inserts "fix" support related issues with the tire casing, but doesn't really help with puncture related issues (although, probably will help to some degree with punctures like pinch flats).

I punctured a EXO DHF straight through the center of the tread area previously. I don't think I'd go "down" that light in casing again. But I'm also "EXO+ (or equivalent) curious" because of the insert, where I've been running the ~DD equivalent Wild Enduro rear previously.
I don't seem to puncture tires, rim dents occasionally. I might experiment with the EXO+ and Tannus insert, from the feedback that I've received here.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Sorry. Misunderstood your question. I can run low enough tire pressure on the back of my FS bike [without an insert] that I rarely if ever need more traction. That includes Coastal BC winter riding and these days I am riding a hardtail through the winter so my FS bike is getting used for the prime riding season where traction is pretty good.
Thank you.

I see you use 20/21 psi on your FS. I'm getting the occasionally rim strike at 25 psi. Forgot to check my tire pressure one time and put a decent dent in my rim. Psi was 22.5 when I checked it later.
 

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Choose you casing based off of if you damage tires. Inserts won't save a tire(exeptfor snake bi. Thicker casing does increase rolling resistance and reduced traction to some degree since they are conform less to the terrain. Inserts are better if you want more support or damping from the casing you are running.
I don't seem to puncture tires, rim dents occasionally. I might experiment with the EXO+ and Tannus insert, from the feedback that I've received here.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!
I've been running DD and Cushcore. I'm going to try the Tannus this spring since they are lighter, and I'm flirting with the idea of trying EXO+ again. I would chew through EXO sidewalls. I had 2 punches through them though. But traction and rolling resistance are better than the DDs
 

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I like the feeling of a heavier casing. They feel more predictable than a lighter casing + insert. They have less traction at lower speeds but if you run the pressure high enough in a light casing tire to not fold or rim strike then it's not going to have good traction either. With a heavier casing you can run less pressure for the same rim strike resistance and get more damping at speed.
 

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I like the feeling of a heavier casing. They feel more predictable than a lighter casing + insert. They have less traction at lower speeds but if you run the pressure high enough in a light casing tire to not fold or rim strike then it's not going to have good traction either. With a heavier casing you can run less pressure for the same rim strike resistance and get more damping at speed.
At high speeds, I agree thicker casing fell better in most situations. When I mentioned traction it's in the climbs.
 

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At high speeds, I agree thicker casing fell better in most situations. When I mentioned traction it's in the climbs.

I agree and it leads to another point...I think to answer this question I'd sum it up simply, if you're doing general trail riding and a trail casing mostly works for you (handling and cut resistance) but you want some rim protection then get a light insert. If it doesn't work get a heavier casing. If your riding consist mostly of riding nasty descents at speed (using an enduro bike in truly appropriate terrain) then get a heavier casing and then if you still need it get an insert also.
 

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dden with inserts long enough to know if I've "stopped" denting my rims. I just know that I've been able to reduce the ping-pong feeling I got in the big "root fields" before when I ran much higher tire pressure
For me personally [190lbs, BC Coastal riding] I can ride my FS bike 160/140mm with reasonable tire pressure and light casings [EXO in Maxxis] without inserts and not have issues "if" I religiously check the rear tire pressure before each ride. The only times I get pinch flats or dented rims is when I let the rear tire pressure drop and I don't add some air. As an example I got a new FS bike in 2018 the rear rim has not got one dent in it. So for me adding even the relatively light 150g of the Tannus tubeless insert in the rear isn't particularly motivating.

That said if I was headed down to the UT/AZ desert on a long road trip I could see myself putting an insert in the rear of my FS bike. Lot's more square edges and faster riding speeds down there vs. where I live.
I may have asked you this in another thread, but I can't recall now. Do you feel like you could ride out a trail at a slower pace on the Tannus tubeless if you flatted, or would you need to throw a tube in?
 

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Do you feel like you could ride out a trail at a slower pace on the Tannus tubeless if you flatted, or would you need to throw a tube in?
I probably could ride out on the Tannus insert going really easy, but our trails are pretty rough and rims are expensive so I'm not real keen on trashing one to save myself a couple minutes of effort.

I'm also able to plug most flats so I expect what would happen if I had a puncture is I'd plug it and pump the tire up to say 10-15psi and just ride out like that. Installing plugs is dead easy and doesn't get messy like dealing with removing an insert and installing a tube.

80%+ of my flats are pinch flats on the rear wheel just hitting something too fast/hard. So I expect those are history with the Tannus insert and I don't expect to be dealing with flats much at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Sounds like a Tannus insert is worth a try. Let us know what you think. :geek:
I'm seriously considering them, just need to convince myself the worth the investment.

Anyone install inserts front and rear notice a difference in climbing?
 

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I probably could ride out on the Tannus insert going really easy, but our trails are pretty rough and rims are expensive so I'm not real keen on trashing one to save myself a couple minutes of effort.

I'm also able to plug most flats so I expect what would happen if I had a puncture is I'd plug it and pump the tire up to say 10-15psi and just ride out like that. Installing plugs is dead easy and doesn't get messy like dealing with removing an insert and installing a tube.

80%+ of my flats are pinch flats on the rear wheel just hitting something too fast/hard. So I expect those are history with the Tannus insert and I don't expect to be dealing with flats much at all.
I have never had to tube a flat since using plugs. Haven't had a bead cut since using inserts.
 

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I agree and it leads to another point...I think to answer this question I'd sum it up simply, if you're doing general trail riding and a trail casing mostly works for you (handling and cut resistance) but you want some rim protection then get a light insert.
This describes my riding fairly well. I like slow tech as well as fast and rowdy descents. I definitely appreciate a supple casing for the slow tech. And thankfully I've never had a problem with casing durability. That's probably more related to my local geology than anything.

A light insert works well for me. I use Huck Norris in the rear of my hardtail. Haven't had a need for one up front, as I don't plow the front into stuff. I try to ride with at least some finesse (which does slow you down, especially when that finesse needs some work). The Huck Norris does what I need it to do. I feel the occasional damped thump on the rear wheel when I hit something with an edge, and I haven't had any rim dings/dents with it.

I definitely agree that you need to assess your riding, your terrain, and your issues in order to select the right products.
 

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I may have asked you this in another thread, but I can't recall now. Do you feel like you could ride out a trail at a slower pace on the Tannus tubeless if you flatted, or would you need to throw a tube in?
I think you could "probably" ride out on a flatted tire with the insert and not suffer from rim damage. But it would be very slow riding. As I said, if you're expecting/wanting to be able to ride on a flat, the Cushcore pro looks like a much better option. But, I'd rather just not flat :). Which is why I'm a bit worried about super light casings and inserts, even though I barely ever puncture (1x in over 2 years so far).

I've only had the tannus tubeless for 4 (short) rides so far, so I'm still adjusting to them/learning about them. I still carry a tube, but might start carrying plugs as well.

And, @Graveltattoo , I do notice some additional traction while climbing. I don't do tons of technical climbing around here, but what I have done, I notice the same things as on the downhills. The rear tire conforms/claws up and over stuff a bit better.
 

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Thanks for the feedback regarding riding out flat. I'm looking at it more from my Enduro racing perspective: flatting, then still managing to limp to the end of a stage and not blow a whole race. Nothing worse than a flat blowing travel, fees, training, etc... :) Seems like I'll stay with CC for the time being.
 

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Subscribed to this thread because I’m strongly considering inserts for at least the rear of both bikes, especially my hardtail.

My biggest goal is to be able to ride packless and no longer carry a spare tube. I did not get a single flat on my enduro bike last season despite riding very technical terrain. However, most of ultra-tech stuff is relatively slow speed because it’s so steep— I think there’s just not enough energy in those slower conditions to pinch flat. I just want it flat-proof so I don’t have to carry so much on my rides.

I ruined a brand new Maxxis Ardent Race riding Captain Ahab in Moab last spring. I knew the trail had some square edges so I ran about 37psi in the rear, but ended up slamming one axe-edged rock way too fast and it pinched one hole in the tread and another in the sidewall right next to the bead. I plugged and patched it later but I could never get it to hold air again at the bead. I think if I’d had an insert, it might have saved the tire.

At the moment I run a double-down Aggressor out back, and it’s a fine tire, but damn it’s heavy on the long rides. I keep thinking about how fast that Ardent Race rolled and how light it was, and then start thinking about one of those with an insert...🤔
 

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Most inserts weigh more than a spare tube, not less. So I’m not sure trying to save weight by going with an insert is likely to work out.

The Tannus Tubeless weighs 160g, and the Cushcore pro weighs what... 290g? There are some inserts that weigh less, but I don’t recall their weights offhand.

Also, isn’t the ardent race a cross country tire? Seems like a fairly lightweight/fragile tire for an enduro race doesn’t it? I’m not entirely sure an insert would save that. But maybe it would be enough with a casing between that and the DD aggressor may work though.

And finally, if you’re wanting to ride pack less, and have a spare tube and save some weight, have you considered strapping a tubolito or other lightweight tube to your bike?
 

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Most inserts weigh more than a spare tube, not less. So I’m not sure trying to save weight by going with an insert is likely to work out.

The Tannus Tubeless weighs 160g, and the Cushcore pro weighs what... 290g? There are some inserts that weigh less, but I don’t recall their weights offhand.

Also, isn’t the ardent race a cross country tire? Seems like a fairly lightweight/fragile tire for an enduro race doesn’t it? I’m not entirely sure an insert would save that. But maybe it would be enough with a casing between that and the DD aggressor may work though.

And finally, if you’re wanting to ride pack less, and have a spare tube and save some weight, have you considered strapping a tubolito or other lightweight tube to your bike?
I should have clarified, the Ardent Race comment was in reference to my hardtail. I would not run a tire like that on my enduro bike. I don’t think I’d run one again on my Honzo, either, which is my all-around trailbike (I wouldn’t categorize any of my riding as “XC” really, despite the distances I sometimes ride).

More or less, I’m thinking maybe there’s some middle ground where something lighter and faster rolling than a DD Aggressor, with a lightish insert, might have an advantage all around.
 

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I got a rear flat about 1/2 way thru the Monarch Crest Trail (30 miles, descend 6k) this past summer and kept riding. I certainly tried to ride soft but it was the last day of the season and a cold front was coming through so I decided to sacrifice my wheel and keep moving fairly fast.
I had a rear Tubolight installed.
Imagine my surprise when I got home and my rear rim, was totally fine.
I now silicone my valve stems in as I kept springing leaks there.


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