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I Have Gnarly Potential
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just wondering whats stopping anyone here who hasnt yet, from going tubeless?

Price? (having to upgrade rims too)

Lack of tire selection and size?

Any other reason? (dont think their as good, etc)

For me its just the dissapointing selection. Even when they port a good tire to UST its usually in like 1 size :/
 

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I've been considering it recently too. My main problem is just not being familar with them, and how to solve any problems on the trail with them. It seems everyone I know that has them has gotten a flat on a trail before and had to walk out for various reasons.

Is the weight savings really worth it when I can just replace a tube in a few minutes and be on my way again??
 

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Premium Member
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I'm a holdout.

Why?

Already got working wheels.
Heavier
Seems like most need goo to keep working
Gotta take the same stuff on trail rides
Let the bugs get all worked out first.

And probably the biggest reason...

Never noticed a problem with what I ride. If it ain't broke...

JmZ

Krause said:
Just wondering whats stopping anyone here who hasnt yet, from going tubeless?

Price? (having to upgrade rims too)

Lack of tire selection and size?

Any other reason? (dont think their as good, etc)

For me its just the dissapointing selection. Even when they port a good tire to UST its usually in like 1 size :/
 

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Hack Racer
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I don't do downhill, and I prefer to run higher pressures and thus don't have problems with pinch flats. I even run the conti light presta valve tubes and have no problems. I currently use a firexcpro 2.1, and I have a pair of the same tire in 1.8 width. I'm going to give them a try soon to see what they are like.
 

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Continental Twister Supersonic 1.9 (370g) + Continental Air Light Presta Tube (126g) - rim tape (UST rim) = 496g < what most tubeless tire weighs + goo.

Tubeless tire mounting needs soaping the beads back and forth, mini hand pump can't inflate it and needs CO2, if no goo and get a puncture then you would put a tube in it anywayz, and tubeless tire costs more than the tube version. :D
 

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Combat Wombat
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I have both.

Krause said:
Just wondering whats stopping anyone here who hasnt yet, from going tubeless?

Price? (having to upgrade rims too)

Lack of tire selection and size?

Any other reason? (dont think their as good, etc)

For me its just the dissapointing selection. Even when they port a good tire to UST its usually in like 1 size :/
My FS has Mavic Crossmax XL tubeless wheels and I am currently running UST Conti Vert Pros on them. These and the UST Hutchinsons that I had prior, I can remove and replace without tools. I have also never had a problem getting the bead to seat using a handpump. I heard all the horror stories and have always been amazed at how easy they were to inflate. They also hold air better than any tubed tire I have ever used. This is without any kind of sealant. Now, that being said, I have two sets of wheels that are standard tubed and as troublefree as my tubeless have been, I have never had any problems with using tubes. My tubeless wheels came with my FS bike and if buying another bike and given the choice, I would probably pick tubeless. But for me, it is not that big of a difference to make it worth switching out or trying to convert the perfectly good tubed wheels I now use.

Brian
 

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About to try it

I am just finishing up a set of tubeless rims for my DH ride. Just want to try it out. Have heard that it can potentially be better. I am pretty sure they sell kits for torn sidewalls. As far as getting a flat out in the middle of a ride I am still going to carry a spare tube to put in just incase I can't get the tire to hold air by itself. As far as tire selection goes I think that there will only be more and more tire selection as time goes on. When it starts picking up I don't know. In the mean time I will use stan's to help seal the non UST tires.
 

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Seems like going tubeless is more work. I run Specialized FAst Trac (550gms) and Specialized Super light tubes (112gms). Since I race, rotating mass is not my friend. I run 40 to 45 PSI so that takes me out of the pinch flat red zone. I've never had a pinch flat.

Going tubless offers me no benefits.
 

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I totally agree...

Guppie58 said:
Seems like going tubeless is more work. I run Specialized FAst Trac (550gms) and Specialized Super light tubes (112gms). Since I race, rotating mass is not my friend. I run 40 to 45 PSI so that takes me out of the pinch flat red zone. I've never had a pinch flat.

Going tubless offers me no benefits.
I think that the marketing efforts on tubeless have been misdirected. By the time you factor in the heavier rim and the heavier tire, any weight benefit from the tubeless set up is pretty much gone. And I don't think that tubeless offers an advantage for smaller volume tires anyway. However, I'm using a tubeless setup on my FS bike and I love it. Using a true 2.25" tire with the Stans sealant allows me to run 32 psi and in over a year I've only torn out a sidewall once. For the records, I personally wouldn't run the tubeless without the sealant. I tried a couple Kenda tubeless tires without the Stans and I had problems with them.

I do think the future for UST is promising - as more tires and more rim options become available, UST will only become a better option for non-racers looking to avoid pinch-flat problems.
 

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NoTubes.com
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Since you run light tubes already, you wouldn't save any weight converting your existing rims and tires to tubeless, it would be a wash. You would be able to run lower pressures without the fear of pinch flats or increased rolling resistance, better traction, more comfort and control, as well as the puncture protection. If your area is not prone to frequent flats the puncture part may not mean much to you. I don't know what level you race at but I can guarantee you that the fastest guys and girls at a Norba National or World Cup race are not riding tubes and they are not anywhere near 40-45 psi. A well known pro we work with has told me personally he saved six minutes on a regular 2 hour loop he does when he switched from tubed tires to a tubeless setup with standard tires and sealant. Take it for what it's worth, personally I would rather check my sealant level or take 10 minutes and set up a new tire than deal with a flat tube on the trail ever again.

(One flat on the trail in the last 3 years for me)
 

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recovering racer
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Mike B. said:
Take it for what it's worth, personally I would rather check my sealant level or take 10 minutes and set up a new tire than deal with a flat tube on the trail ever again.

(One flat on the trail in the last 3 years for me)
Totally agree, I'm a Stan's convert for life and I'll never ride tubes again on my MTB. But, it's easy to be lulled into thinking you'll never flat again. I didn't flat on the trail for 2 years and was so confident/cocky that I wouldn't flat that I never carried a spare tube/pump with me. Then a few weeks ago I cut the sidewall in my rear and lost all air with no hope of the sealant working on the cut since the casing flexes so much. I found some guys with a pump and patch kit, but no tube. Ended up walking out for a looong way.

Running lightweight standard tires (this was a Nevegal Lite) at low pressures, 30psi, leaves the casing pretty exposed to cuts if you ride in rocky terrain. I'm carrying a tube and pump now just in case. I don't expect to have to use it for another few years, but when I do need it, and eventually I'm sure I will, I'll be glad to have the spare.
 

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Rim strips for my rims cost too [email protected] much...

$40/ wheel for the DT Swiss EX tubless kit!! And on top of that the tires I want are another $40/ wheel. I guess I will have to wait for a while :-(
 

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The main reason I haven't even considered going tubeless is because of the extra installation effort. It seems like at least once a week, someone is starting a new thread about the difficulties of installing a tubeless system. I don't even know if it's true or not, but until people start praising tubeless "ease of installation", I'm going to stick with what I have.
 

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my switch was incidental

I converted my bike to disk brakes and in doing so had to get new wheels. I figured I might as well get tubeless capable wheels so I would have the option. The first tire I mounted I had no problems with - installed as advertised. The second one was a different story and the source of great consternation. I'm not deterred though, figure that one tire was a fluke. I'll see how they ride, see how reliable they are, and if I don't like them switch back to tubes. More of an experiment than anything.
 

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Tubeless... I like the concept but have not tried.

1. Not sure if I have ever seen tubeless tires for cheap. Have you?
2. I have a stack of non tubeless tires already.
3. Goo sealant... ugh. Sounds like a hassle.
4. I change my tires often, see #3.
5. Not going to replace these rims until they die.
 

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I race in sport class so I'm not worried about what world class racers do. They have many other perks available to them as well. I understand the point you are making and I do want to be as competitive as possible, I just don't think this makes much difference in Sport class.

I have new wheels being build that are 4.1d rims. From what I hear, conversion kits add about 50 grams per wheel (tape and goo). I would lose 110 grams by taking out the tube. Thus I could save 60 grams a wheel by going tubeless, assuming I keep my non-UST tires.

Now if I get the same tire I use now (Specialized Fast Trac 550 grams) in UST, the tire weight jumps to 628 grams (and the price goes from $35 to $67), thus I actually gain 18 grams a wheel. My wallet becomes lighter.

The only benefit is if I can run a non UST tire. That would just open me up to another type of flat risk.

I've never had a pinch flat. Is there REALLY that much benefit for me to lose 5 PSI per tire?
 

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over researcher
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I get away with 34-ish psi in the back and 32'ish psi in the front with my 2.1 Nevegal and 2.1 Blue Groove while running Maxxis Fly Weight tubes. No, not on buffed singletrack either. See pic. Unless I move to an area where the trails have puncture vine problems, I don't see the reason to switch. Personally, I'd rather not have to deal with getting sealant all over my hands, gloves, legs, rims, brakes, etc. if I were to tear a sidewall.
 

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Yeah, but you're not going to get punctures walking up trails like that!:D
Personally I've just got myself an xt wheelset, tubeless. I'm shopping for tyres at the moment and there is definitely less selection for a higher price. My mates have had pretty good luck with their tubeless systems, but the tyres seem to be a pain to get off and on (re-seating looks a chore). Have to see how mine go.
 

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Recent convert here...

I had the chance to go UST four years ago when I bought a new Giant NRS1, but decided not to. It was my opinion that there were still a few issues with overall reliability of UST - compatiblity b/w various tyre & rim manufacturers, poor air retention, limited tyre choice etc.

16 Months ago, I again bought a new bike and my research and reading lead me to the opinion that reliability had improved a lot over recent years. So, with much trepidation, I decided to pull the trigger and go with it (Mavic XM819 and Hutchison Spider combo but a conscious decision to NOT use Stans).

At first, I was as nervous as hell at the prospect of having to change a tyre (I had heard / read all the nightmare stories about mounting difficulties) but when the day finally came, I was amazed at how easy it was to do (although I think that is a reflection of the good compatibility b/w the rims and the tyres).

Like I mentioned, I don't use Stans as I didn't want to deal with the mess. As luck would have it, I got my first UST puncture last Sunday. As per the guidance on the Hutchison web-site, I simply folded the tyre at the point of the puncture and applied a small dab of superglue to the "wound". Five minutes later, I reinflated the tyre (beads hadn't un-seated so my small hand pump did the job) and I was off and running - too easy. This sealed (no pun intened) my faith and I am now an avid convert.

That said, I still carry a spare tube in case of a major tear.

Cheers,

Sam.
 

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I'm a unitard!
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Guppie58 said:
I've never had a pinch flat. Is there REALLY that much benefit for me to lose 5 PSI per tire?
Actually, it sounds like you could lose 10-15 psi (I run mine around 30). And yes, just losing 5 psi will make that much of a difference unless you are riding super smooth suff all the time. No you don't gain rolling resistance.

I've been running tubeless for 6 years. 5 on Crossmax UST and this year I switched to Stan's Olympic rim and converting standard tires. I still have a set of Crossmax for my fun rides. The Stan's rims are for racing. I think I saved close to 2 lbs over the Crossmax SL with UST tires by swithching to the Stan's rim and converted tires.

I was very skeptical about switching to converted tires after having A LOT of success with a standard UST setup. I was worried about the thin sidewall/durability thing. Well I've been using Kenda Karmas (480 g), and to be honest, they can take more punishment than any UST tire I had been using. Those are around 650-700 grams. For instance, I would use Michelin XC dry and it's predecessor. 2-3 races and those suckers were toast. All gashed up and the tread was gone. After 6 or 7 races on the Karmas, they were still good to go. No gashes or anything. Don't buy the argument that standard tires can't take that abuse. The tube adds no supporting strenght to the tire.

I've maybe had 5-10 flats during that time and I ride/race quite a bit. Tubeless is a good thing. You'll notice a huge difference in traction and will start riding things you couldn't before (on mostly uphill sections).

FWIW, I'm know for not always taking the smoothes line around. I ride and race in Colorado. Lots of rocks. Sharpens too.
 
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