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rohloff rich
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Recently, I found out that a formerly defunct race in Santa Fe is being resurrected. Along with GlenZX, I volunteered to help organize it. One of the discussions we had at our first meeting was exactly what kind of race it's going to be. So, imagine that you're an XC racer in a Southwestern state that has a race series of 10 or so events, all of which are your standard XC race. Would you be interested in doing something a little different? So far, the choices are:

- A timed endurance event (like a 24 hour race except we don't want to put on a 24 hour race, so it's be how many laps can you do in say, 4 hours?).

- A short track, but probably something with longer laps. The idea is to have an event that is more spectator-friendly.

or

- The standard 1 lap for beginners, 2 laps for sports and 3 laps for experts XC race.

Another consideration is to make the event attractive and accessible for all sorts of riders, from the complete noob to the crusty expert. We're also talking about having a kids' race to make it family-friendly.

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated!
 

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I'd say the short track or the endurance events... if you do something a bit different that will attract more people.
 

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None of the above

You should do a marathon-type race. Point-to-point if possible.

In the Midwest, by far the most popular races are the long point-to-point races. Check out the Chequamegon Fattire 40, Ore-to-Shore, and Iceman Cometh for examples. Chequamegon gets 2,500 people, and Iceman Cometh around 2,000.
 

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I did a Night Time dirt TT last year, far and away the most fun race of the year. Another race I'd kill to see is a two day, three event MTB stage race comprised of a TT (bonus points if you run it at night in the dark), dirt Crit, & XC race.

One of the local series ran an enduro class simultaneously with the usual beginner, sport, expert classes. The way that race is set up, the beginner's start at 10:00 and race for no less than 1hr (if you come in under the 1hr mark, you head out for another lap). The Sport & Expert class starts at 11:30 and race for 1.5hrs. The Enduro class went out just before the beginner class and raced for 3hrs. It was fun, but the enduro class didn't really add more people to the races, just cannabalized the sport & expert classes.
 

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I'm looking forward to the possibility of an enduro race on the WORS calendar next year, but if you're going for spectator-friendly, a short-track event is where it's at. I'd make it like a cyclocross race - 1-1.5km course with a time limit + one lap. My wife says watching cross races is ten times as fun as a regular XC race because she gets to see me on every part of the course multiple times.
 

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One big frickin' XC loop.
You can have cutoff trails for shorter beginner and sport routes.

You could also do a great Super-D around Flag.
 

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Aha! Ricj said he posted the question here - cool to hear the responses. For a standard XC or Marathon race, the venue would be almost impossible to make a big enough single loop for the elite categories, but Sport and Beginners could be directed onto a fun single-loop type course. The idea of bringing everyone through a central start/finish area more than once or twice has is cool for friends and spectators - sort of an extendo short track format, but calling it short track could be misleading - as I'd imaging we'd want say 20-30 minute laps for the fast folks, and it'd have the added course complexity of a lot of passing - as the elite folks sneak up on the beginners and sports.

The "mini-endurance" format seems to be getting a lot of positive feedback locally, as folks not interested in scoring points in the off-road series could do a team, but the regular XC classes would be doing a solo race, again, on a shortish 30-50 minute lap type course - short enough to have to plan multiple-lap strategies/timing, but long enough to not be bogged down by spending half the race logging in/out!

I guess I lean slightly towards a marathon length event as I'm intimidated by the timing logistics of a 24 hr. style format, but who knows...

One thing that is shaping up to be VERY cool is that the location of the "expo"/registration area will likely be by an insane series of dirt jumps - where we'll be having lunatics hurling themselves through the air during or after the race(s). The local dirt jumper crowd has spent a few years making a sick, sick and massive series of stunts out there. Maybe we should send the XC racers through it! haha, JK.

Damn, a series of STXC races with a few mild stunts on course would kick-ass too! And we could stage it so classes could easily be run totally seperately.... ah decisions. MAybe a straight up STXC and a TT seperately? That's doable too....

And Shiggy - not sure what ye mean by doing an event in/around Flag...?
Flagstaff? That'd be a 9 hour drive from the XC venue! :confused:
 

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Hombres

I can only add a little to what was said above.

First, events like 24 hour races and FC50 and Laramie Enduro seem to draw the biggest number of racers, and perhaps the reason is because the racers like those the most. Therefore I concur with the notion of a long endurance race.

Also fairly popular here in Boulder are the STXC races. (See www.boulderracing.com for info). They're relatively low headache to put on, I think (disclaimer: I have no experience). But I think you would have problem with STXC because nobody would drive very far for them since they're such short events. So, you'd probably have to put it in Albuquerque to get any sort of draw...and I'm not sure if that's what you have in mind...

Tom
 

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rohloff rich
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
shiggy said:
One big frickin' XC loop.
You can have cutoff trails for shorter beginner and sport routes.

You could also do a great Super-D around Flag.
A Santa Fe to Flagstaff race would definitely qualify as a "one big friggin' XC loop"! ;)

Thanks for all the comments and ideas. Sounds like folks would definitely be into doing something a little different. I'm sure we'd like to be able to put on an event that would include an STXC/Dirt crit, a super D, a timed event and a marathon event but I think most of the folks on the organization committee would be a little intimidated by having to run more than one race, so it'll have to be one of the above. I can see how just an STXC may not attract that many people to race so the timed event looks like the obvious choice. Keep the comments and ideas coming, though!
 

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rs3o said:
A Santa Fe to Flagstaff race would definitely qualify as a "one big friggin' XC loop"! ;)

Thanks for all the comments and ideas. Sounds like folks would definitely be into doing something a little different. I'm sure we'd like to be able to put on an event that would include an STXC/Dirt crit, a super D, a timed event and a marathon event but I think most of the folks on the organization committee would be a little intimidated by having to run more than one race, so it'll have to be one of the above. I can see how just an STXC may not attract that many people to race so the timed event looks like the obvious choice. Keep the comments and ideas coming, though!
Sorry. Reading Santa Fe and thinking Flagstaff.

Go big or go home! :D
Or go big, then go home.
 

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Get your freak on!
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Well, i don't know if you could do the same, but there is a local summer series of short track racing going on just up the road from me (a long road.. but still nearby). It runs in the afternoon of Saturday once every month. And then another club is holding the exact same thing on wednesday afternoons every fortnight.

Basically, it is held on the local Mini MX track, so lots of table top jumps that are made for kids to be able to clear, and lots of bermed corners, and just all around a fun track. It has one steep climb and a couple of short flats. Every week the course is changed slightly, but stays around the 1km mark.

It is called a Dirtcrit, which is like a criterium race, but for dirt..

there are a couple of different grades, so all types of people can race. They have a shorter track for the kids, then they have a over 16Kg bike class, which means all the DJ/DH/FR bikes come out, and get some air on the jumps, and take it easy on the hill. Their race would go say 15min + 2 laps.

Then C grade is mostly XC bikes, with novice riders just out there for fun.

As the grades go higher, then races get slighlty longer and faster. The fastest guys are XC guys, as all the jumps can be rolled with ease.

It is just a very quick, fun and easy race to do. And theres great prizes for the little effort you have to put in.

BUT.. it does help if you have a Mini MX track you can race on:(.

But the 4hour also sounds good, i have done a couple of those before, and they are great.
 

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Try... Enduro Short Track? Short laps that are 5 minutes long, but extend the time from 30 minutes to like 2+ hours. Great for spectators and family. Great for racers needing a challenge.

In NYS, we had a series of 6 hour races last year. 4 hours isn't so bad, but it's much easier than 6. The pace in a 6 hour really pushes the limits and you start to break down around the 5 hour mark. Nutrition is exceptionally difficult to maintain in these races.

Point-to-Point races are also fun and really, for some reason, do attract the most people. In the NE and Canada, there are lots of P2P races and they've always got hundreds or thousands of people. It's crazy. 40 miles or so seems to draw the line.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck with it! Eventually, I'll get to old for this racing stuff and start doing race promotion. I'm looking forward to it. I've always wanted to put on my own races.

- Jeremy -
 

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personally I do not think the format matters as much as the location/course.

1 big loop is fun to race but it is hard to pre-ride so it is hard to tell where you are in relation to the finish. Spectators do not like it and aid stations are a problem if you hate camel backs.

Small loops 10-20mins are great for the spectators but suck to race on no matter the course. I absolutly hate doing more then 4 laps on anything that last over an hour. I lose interest and lap traffic is always a problem.

my favorite courses are ones that you can do either 2 laps of the same course or 2 different loops with a crossover near the start finish. My favorite race was always Rage in the Sage. 2 laps on a 21 mile course. The start is on a brutal dirt road for a mile, the rest single track and the finish is on a bmx track.
 

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Linoleum Knife
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Duathalon

Now, I am not a runner by any means.

But they have a really cool event in Durango called the South Rim Off-road duathalon. You trail run for like 5 miles, then hop on your MTB and race for something like 15 miles.

It is definitely something different, and attracts a different crowd than your typical MTB series nerds. The crappy runners can make up time on the MTB and the crappy MTBers can make up time running.

Just food for thought.

~FB
 

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2012 Race: April 28th!
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A 2 day mtb stage race gets my vote. Revenge of the Siskyous in Ashland Oregon had that format. Saturday was an 18 mi xc race on tight, tricky singletrack. Sunday was a 40 mile giant loop with a huge climb on mostly fire roads. Lowest combined time won. Great fun, I miss that race!
 

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Three Lap Free For All

Stage it as 3 laps of nearly any miles per lap. I personally don't like doing more that 3 laps. Some races could be 6 mile laps, other could be 12 miles. Mix it up.
Mass LeMans start. (The mayhem is a crowd pleaser - I hope you have big parking lot!)
There are no categories, just age groups. (Beginner, Sport, Expert - give me a break!)
First 2 in each age group to complete lap 1 get a prize.
First 2 in each category to complete 2 laps get a bigger prize.
First 2 in each age group to finish 3 laps get the biggest prize or maybe their money back!
You can only get 1 prize.
My idea is that all the (normally) beginner, sport and expert riders would race together. If you get too many racers, then start in waves based on age.

There are so many strategies each racer can empoy for this kind of race. Also, you can structure the points so racers can do 1, 2 or 3 laps at any race and their points still carry over. For example, 1 lappers get 100, 90, 80, etc. points; 2 lappers get 150, 140, 130, etc. points and 3 lappers get 200, 190, 180, etc. points. If I do 3 laps one race, then have a mega mechanical on my third lap the next race I still get credit for my 2 laps.

As far as timing goes, you can just post a clock and let racers deal with their lap times themselves. All you need to do is write down the order each rider comes by, plug it into a spreadsheet (or do that real time) and sort it out. I suppose you might also want to time each riders lap times (I know I like that!!) which would make it easier to sort out the awards. Also, maybe the points should be tied to the lap times so for the overall points all racers are encouraged to go as fast as they can.

It is crazy, I know, but I think it would be very exciting and really create a buzz. The important thing is that all skill levels race at the same time.

rs3o said:
Recently, I found out that a formerly defunct race in Santa Fe is being resurrected. Along with GlenZX, I volunteered to help organize it. One of the discussions we had at our first meeting was exactly what kind of race it's going to be. So, imagine that you're an XC racer in a Southwestern state that has a race series of 10 or so events, all of which are your standard XC race. Would you be interested in doing something a little different? So far, the choices are:

- A timed endurance event (like a 24 hour race except we don't want to put on a 24 hour race, so it's be how many laps can you do in say, 4 hours?).

- A short track, but probably something with longer laps. The idea is to have an event that is more spectator-friendly.

or

- The standard 1 lap for beginners, 2 laps for sports and 3 laps for experts XC race.

Another consideration is to make the event attractive and accessible for all sorts of riders, from the complete noob to the crusty expert. We're also talking about having a kids' race to make it family-friendly.

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated!
 

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ozone said:
personally I do not think the format matters as much as the location/course.

1 big loop is fun to race but it is hard to pre-ride so it is hard to tell where you are in relation to the finish. Spectators do not like it and aid stations are a problem if you hate camel backs.

Small loops 10-20mins are great for the spectators but suck to race on no matter the course. I absolutly hate doing more then 4 laps on anything that last over an hour. I lose interest and lap traffic is always a problem.

my favorite courses are ones that you can do either 2 laps of the same course or 2 different loops with a crossover near the start finish. My favorite race was always Rage in the Sage. 2 laps on a 21 mile course. The start is on a brutal dirt road for a mile, the rest single track and the finish is on a bmx track.
Funny you mention the 4 lap "threshold"! Looks like our course will work out so that the pro/expert groups will do 4 laps - and the laps may be as much as 7.5 to 8 miles - but are at 6.2 miles now. The cool part is that for each lap we'll be going through the start/finish/staging area twice, as it's a distorted figure 8 that instead of crossing at the intersection "pinches down". Keeps the registration/expo/start/finish/etc... area very central and festive - I hope anyhow! With FAST lap times of about 40 minutes as the 6.2 mile course stands now, it's more of a typical XC race - but, we;ve got the preliminary OK to add some connector pieces of trail in that will add as much as 1.6 miles aprx, 1/2 of which is baby-head strewn techy singletrack that will make everyone work pretty hard, especially when cracking at the end!

Here's the map thus far:


We're looking to add the trail at the top - the finer red line - with the aid of a new piece of trail to tie it in, away from those "pink boxes" that represent property we need to avoid. The course heads down to the left along a dirt road, then makes a hard left onto singletrack and goes generally counter-clockwise...

For those that know it - this will be very similar to the MSC Chalk Creek course - just no evil headwind grass field climbing! Pinion/Juniper scrubby trees, lot's of baby heads and some soft arroyo crossings - but some really fun techy trails too.
 
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