Interval training on hills.
What makes a bike climb "better" ?
I am a noob and haven't cycled for decades and just getting on it now. While reading bike reviews, they mention about "bike climbs great, fast, or slow" etc.
So what makes a certain bike climb better? If I got a bike that was rated to climb slow or crappy, what mods/changes do I need to make it better?
Thanks
![Bicycle Sky Wheel Tire Cloud]()
So what makes a certain bike climb better? If I got a bike that was rated to climb slow or crappy, what mods/changes do I need to make it better?
Thanks
1 - 20 of 54 Posts
Weight and suspension performance. The best product to improve climbing (and all other aspects of riding) is to put on a nice wheelset. But the best way is to improve your fitness!I am a noob and haven't cycled for decades and just getting on it now. While reading bike reviews, they mention about "bike climbs great, fast, or slow" etc.
So what makes a certain bike climb better? If I got a bike that was rated to climb slow or crappy, what mods/changes do I need to make it better?
Thanks
At this point in riding working on your skills and fitness with the equipment you have will bring the most benefits. A lot of climbing gains can be had by just learning how to relax, breathe efficiently, and spin smooth circles when working hard. New riders have a tendency to tense up and use a lot of energy doing things that are not productive.
Apart from lowering ones body weight, I think climbing is more about your expectations and mindset.
Generally, I never feel long climbs get any easier with improved fitness, I just get to the top faster. Climbing can suck regardless of your bike set-up, or fitness level.
Intervals, strength training and hip mobility (proper hip hinge posture) are key to improving your climbing fitness.
Generally, I never feel long climbs get any easier with improved fitness, I just get to the top faster. Climbing can suck regardless of your bike set-up, or fitness level.
Intervals, strength training and hip mobility (proper hip hinge posture) are key to improving your climbing fitness.
This is one reason to take reviews with a grain of salt.I am a noob and haven't cycled for decades and just getting on it now. While reading bike reviews, they mention about "bike climbs great, fast, or slow" etc.
So what makes a certain bike climb better? If I got a bike that was rated to climb slow or crappy, what mods/changes do I need to make it better?
Thanks
Language like that is mostly meaningless fluff. There are some very subtle differences between bikes that might make for improvements in climbing compared to other bikes, but the biggest things are going to be more individual. Things like fit, suspension setup, and tire choice (and pressure) are things you can adjust on any bike. A lighter bike (and especially lighter wheels/tires) will feel quicker, but depending on the terrain, may or may not actually be faster. And of course, rider fitness and rider skill are independent of the bike. Part of that skill is whether you can adapt your position and technique to different bikes quickly.
To the question. What makes a bike climb better is geometry of the frame. Where is the weight when you are seated and at an incline. Also stiffness. Can you get all the torque you are generating to the wheel with the minimum power loss. Weight is always a factor. If its full suspension the ability to fully lock the rear and maybe the rear shock itself. As others have said if the bikes design doesnt make it a good climber then there are not alot of bike mods that fix that. Its then physical fitness.
No motor.
Something easy to do over the course of a day is to double step going up stairs. Get in the habit and it helps. Squats too but to be honest, all uphill is gross. I never like it but it comes with the territory.
Take a good look at your drivetrain. Can you get your gearing lower to help? I have a hardtail that I had a 36/22 as my granny gear and switched to a 36/20. Found it too low (and the chain was having issues). Moved to a 36/21 and if you do the math, it is equivalent to a 52/30. I find it low. I am sure you can get a 28 for even lower gears. As you improve you can move into harder gears. Or if you are having a bad day move down.
Something easy to do over the course of a day is to double step going up stairs. Get in the habit and it helps. Squats too but to be honest, all uphill is gross. I never like it but it comes with the territory.
Take a good look at your drivetrain. Can you get your gearing lower to help? I have a hardtail that I had a 36/22 as my granny gear and switched to a 36/20. Found it too low (and the chain was having issues). Moved to a 36/21 and if you do the math, it is equivalent to a 52/30. I find it low. I am sure you can get a 28 for even lower gears. As you improve you can move into harder gears. Or if you are having a bad day move down.
Also....to your last question...if you want a bike that climbs fairly well, don't buy one that doesn't and then attempt to make changes that will improve it. Buy one that does. There are plenty of trails bikes that climb well. And XC bikes do. And DH bikes don't. So buy the bike you want/need.
The bike itself will climb much better with fast rolling tires, that's the primary factor in how much energy it takes to ride a bike up a climb.
Then you have geometry, rear suspension performance and travel, rotating weight, and lastly total bike weight.
Then you have geometry, rear suspension performance and travel, rotating weight, and lastly total bike weight.
Apart from rider fitness and weight, the next thing is geometry and suspension performance:
Geometry:
Seated climb's biggest contributor in geometry is STA. Too slack STA "USUALLY" set rider too far back behind the crank. and reduce rider's pedaling efficiency. It's easier press down with legs when you are still over the crank than if you hang far back over the rear wheel.
* The usually part assume rider let the bike determine where they sit, rather than adjusting their own position using saddle rail and seat post offset.
For Standing climb, it's more of the overall geometry and the weight balance (that affect suspension). Handlebar too tall is a common thing that makes it hard to weight front wheel properly when climbing. If weight balance shift too far off, you end up putting too little weight on front wheel making it less planted to the ground. And put too much weight on rear shock, making it too soft.
Suspension performance:
1)
How much anti-squat the bike has? Ideally, you'd want anti-squat to be around 95-140% at climbing gear. In theory, 100% means bike doesn't extend or compress if you induce forward acceleration to the bike. But that doesn't count the down stroke surge from your legs so the value over a hundred percent is to resist that force.
Too low and the bike bob down too much during down stroke.
Too high and the bike suspension stiffen when pedal, making suspension less active (harsh) on technical climb.
While you can't easily change frame design, you can adjust chain ring size which also effect anti-squat of the frame. Generally, smaller chain ring (and bigger cassette) increase anti-squat. While larger chain ring reduce anti-squat and make bike suspension more active during the climb.
2)
Suspension Damping: This is what takes energy away from you. If you have a spring without damper, the suspension may bob and oscillate a lot but energy is still mostly in the system doing unproductive work (keep the bike bob up and down). The damper reduce amplitude (remove energy) to make suspension movement feel controlled, not bob up and down endlessly like a pogo stick. There damper are usually separated into rebound (the upward moment) damping and compression (downward moment) damping and usually also separated as high speed and low speed circuit as well.
Long story short, Low Speed Compression (LSC) effect climbing the most. More LSC make suspension more resist to downward compression from pedaling.
Many rear shock has climb switch or lockout which essentially set LSC to the max. In climb or lockout mode, bike won't response to any light compression force anymore. It basically become rigid, until you hit something so hard it blow open the High Speed Compression (HSC) circuit which is unlikely during a slow climb. This can be too harsh to ride on technical climb, and many people don't like to switch the suspension mode for climbing and descending. So a compromise is to inflate some low speed compression setting on regular (open) suspension mode setting. So the open mode feel a bit firm (described as having a platform) to pedal and still work okay at go down the descend fast.
Recap: check STA (and your seat location) for seated climb, anti-squat value of the frame, and low speed compression setting of the shock (and also fork).
Geometry:
Seated climb's biggest contributor in geometry is STA. Too slack STA "USUALLY" set rider too far back behind the crank. and reduce rider's pedaling efficiency. It's easier press down with legs when you are still over the crank than if you hang far back over the rear wheel.
* The usually part assume rider let the bike determine where they sit, rather than adjusting their own position using saddle rail and seat post offset.
For Standing climb, it's more of the overall geometry and the weight balance (that affect suspension). Handlebar too tall is a common thing that makes it hard to weight front wheel properly when climbing. If weight balance shift too far off, you end up putting too little weight on front wheel making it less planted to the ground. And put too much weight on rear shock, making it too soft.
Suspension performance:
1)
How much anti-squat the bike has? Ideally, you'd want anti-squat to be around 95-140% at climbing gear. In theory, 100% means bike doesn't extend or compress if you induce forward acceleration to the bike. But that doesn't count the down stroke surge from your legs so the value over a hundred percent is to resist that force.
Too low and the bike bob down too much during down stroke.
Too high and the bike suspension stiffen when pedal, making suspension less active (harsh) on technical climb.
While you can't easily change frame design, you can adjust chain ring size which also effect anti-squat of the frame. Generally, smaller chain ring (and bigger cassette) increase anti-squat. While larger chain ring reduce anti-squat and make bike suspension more active during the climb.
2)
Suspension Damping: This is what takes energy away from you. If you have a spring without damper, the suspension may bob and oscillate a lot but energy is still mostly in the system doing unproductive work (keep the bike bob up and down). The damper reduce amplitude (remove energy) to make suspension movement feel controlled, not bob up and down endlessly like a pogo stick. There damper are usually separated into rebound (the upward moment) damping and compression (downward moment) damping and usually also separated as high speed and low speed circuit as well.
Long story short, Low Speed Compression (LSC) effect climbing the most. More LSC make suspension more resist to downward compression from pedaling.
Many rear shock has climb switch or lockout which essentially set LSC to the max. In climb or lockout mode, bike won't response to any light compression force anymore. It basically become rigid, until you hit something so hard it blow open the High Speed Compression (HSC) circuit which is unlikely during a slow climb. This can be too harsh to ride on technical climb, and many people don't like to switch the suspension mode for climbing and descending. So a compromise is to inflate some low speed compression setting on regular (open) suspension mode setting. So the open mode feel a bit firm (described as having a platform) to pedal and still work okay at go down the descend fast.
Recap: check STA (and your seat location) for seated climb, anti-squat value of the frame, and low speed compression setting of the shock (and also fork).
All of these answers about geometry and fitness are stupid. Don't listen to those people. Get an ebike and yell at people when they get in your way on the climbs. Pedaling up hills with just your legs is dumb.
It is surprising how much difference suspension performance plays in how a bike climbs. I demoed an enduro bike with a plush suspension and the Ibis Ripmo on the same day and the difference was surprising and noticeable. The enduro bike climbed like a pig, whereas the Ripmo was much faster and less draggy. Ended up buying the Ripmo AF.
If you can arrange it, try borrowing a friends bike for a climb or demoing bikes to get an appreciation on how different bikes climb.
If you can arrange it, try borrowing a friends bike for a climb or demoing bikes to get an appreciation on how different bikes climb.
Prior pandemic, We are planning to climb the highest peaks around the country. I was training hard for uphill climbs. Nothing technical but as long as it's uphill, I go and ride.
I purchased an XC HT hardtail (latest model) with 12x drive train. Surely enough, I thought it was better vs my previous bike with 10x. However, as I am progressing with my training, I noticed that I rarely use the largest cogs. If I have to put numbers on cogs like 1 - 12.. probably my max is 9-10.
I'm no expert but what I noticed that helps are:
1. Light wheel set
2. 12x is better than 10x for a start
3. modern/latest bikes seem to climb better.
4. Lighter bike is better
Again, these are just my personal observations.
I purchased an XC HT hardtail (latest model) with 12x drive train. Surely enough, I thought it was better vs my previous bike with 10x. However, as I am progressing with my training, I noticed that I rarely use the largest cogs. If I have to put numbers on cogs like 1 - 12.. probably my max is 9-10.
I'm no expert but what I noticed that helps are:
1. Light wheel set
2. 12x is better than 10x for a start
3. modern/latest bikes seem to climb better.
4. Lighter bike is better
Again, these are just my personal observations.
It's also surprising how a significant difference in "feel" doesn't necessarily result in any significant difference in time to climb/speed.It is surprising how much difference suspension performance plays in how a bike climbs. I demoed an enduro bike with a plush suspension and the Ibis Ripmo on the same day and the difference was surprising and noticeable. The enduro bike climbed like a pig, whereas the Ripmo was much faster and less draggy. Ended up buying the Ripmo AF.
If you can arrange it, try borrowing a friends bike for a climb or demoing bikes to get an appreciation on how different bikes climb.
The one that is fairly consistent in my experience is the less travel the bike has and the lighter it is, the faster and less effort it's going to take. A 4" XC race bike with mediocre suspension will climb way faster than a 6" one with the best whatever at the time.
Yeah, this is another one. Number of cogs or sizes isn't a direct correlation with ease of climbing, speed of climbing or time to climb. The human body tends to adapt to whatever gearing you get it, but to increase climbing ability, you gotta push yourself, gotta get uncomfortable, gotta go do those max-effort rides, races, intervals, training, etc. That is how you start making stuff you couldn't make. To some extent, larger cogs is a false-hope thing. There is validity for some easy gear combos and situations (while others are just out there and ridiculous IME).Prior pandemic, We are planning to climb the highest peaks around the country. I was training hard for uphill climbs. Nothing technical but as long as it's uphill, I go and ride.
I purchased an XC HT hardtail (latest model) with 12x drive train. Surely enough, I thought it was better vs my previous bike with 10x. However, as I am progressing with my training, I noticed that I rarely use the largest cogs. If I have to put numbers on cogs like 1 - 12.. probably my max is 9-10.
I'm no expert but what I noticed that helps are:
1. Light wheel set
2. 12x is better than 10x for a start
3. modern/latest bikes seem to climb better.
4. Lighter bike is better
Again, these are just my personal observations.
What I found common is the sag change when terrain tilt induce anti-squat value change by different amount depend on the suspension design.It's also surprising how a significant difference in "feel" doesn't necessarily result in any significant difference in time to climb/speed.
The one that is fairly consistent in my experience is the less travel the bike has and the lighter it is, the faster and less effort it's going to take. A 4" XC race bike with mediocre suspension will climb way faster than a 6" one with the best whatever at the time.
Say, an XC bike has 100% anti-squat at 25% sag on flat ground. Terrain tilt make rear end of the bike sag to 30% instead. Then at 30% sag, the anti-squat is still 95% and it still feel stiff.
Another enduro bike has 100% anti-squat at 30% sag on flat ground. Terrain tilt make rear end of the bike sag to 40% instead (bigger change because of higher bar, more travel, more progressive leverage curve, and front wheel is further forward than XC bike.) Then at 40% sag, the anti-squat dive to 80% because the bike suspension is designed to be more active on small to medium bumps...
While on flat they feel the same. The more travel bike isn't as efficient anymore on the climb.
Shuttle, chairlift, or helicopter will make any bike climb better.If I got a bike that was rated to climb slow or crappy, what mods/changes do I need to make it better?
Thanks
In the realm of full suspension, DW link bikes are usually the best climbers. Pivot or Ibis are DW link bikes. Compare a bike with the same travel and a DW link will ride stiffer at the top end of the travel making it pedal better and resist bobbing. All of this makes for an energetic suspension rather than supple. My Santa Cruz is the opposite but it crushes descents and provides better stability at higher speeds. Ultimately I prefer a stiffer pedaling bike for flowy up and downs in my area. I break out the Santa cruz for enduro or rocky riding.
Who makes a better climbing bike, Canadian Laid Carbon!
Geometry makes a big difference as does wheel size. I went from a 26" wheeled FS to a 29" HT and pleasently discovers the HT climbs like a scalded cat. Power to the wheels is better, the wheels roll faster and I'm a bit more forward with a steeper STA, all mean I climb better.
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